Tree Peonies 2009

[Regelian]

Hans,

interesting what you mentioned about P. ostii being 'sparrig' (spare or sparce growing in English, but I think most would say upright and unbranched), as one plant I purchased some 9 years ago from Chinese exports fits this description well.  I did cut it back, and it did get a better form, but still tends to be a sparce grower.  It may be Fen Dan Bai.  foto attached

I'm fascinated by the rose-coloured species, as well as some of the leaf forms.  Often, my seedlings are showing very different leaf forms as their parents (hybrids), which gives a clue as to their heritage.  Many are quite lime-green in colour, with smaller and obtuse, sometime slightly serrated, leaf forms.  Others are very bornze and tend to have more lanceolate leaves.

In any case, I like having some species to show where the flowers started from, as well as finding the natural forms strangely alluring.  As much as I am fascinated by a variety such as Kinkaku (Souv. de Maxime Cornu), one plant with hanging balls of petals is enough for a small garden.

As I am understanding it, we currently recognize two main species of Mouton (suffruticosa and decomposita), with many subsps and varieties.  Plus the delavayi group.  The two species are seperated via the degree of sheath vagination.  Sound like pretty shaky grounds.  Are there other points to consider?

I really appreciate you taking the time to explain this.  No need to rush.

possible P. ostii or Fen Dan Bai
Kinkaku (Souvenir de Mons. Maxime Cornu, which is the actual registered name, being a European hybrid, not Japanese!))

[Hans J]

Robin ,

yes - I see also sometims ants on buds of perrenial peonies .....special P. lactiflora buds has sugar drops so they are attractive for this animals - but I see never any damages from them .

[Hans J]

Jamie ,

P. ostii is in China the cheapest peony ...they grow it for medical use ....

Yes - it is a typical sign of when you have a batch of seedling and all have different leaves ....( I would make it in the dust bin )

I have to confess I'm not a big fan of 'Souvenier de maxime Cornu' ....I like not this hanging balls ( often in the leaves ) - I have my plant given away before some time - it is waste of room ( for me )

If you like to know more for species treepeonies so I can suggest you two books :
'Strauchpfingstrosen' von Irmtraud Rieck
'Treepeonies' from Lupo Osti

there are descripet all your questions ....

After Hong Tao is it following :

                      Paeoniaceae

Moutan ----------- Onaepia-----------Paeon
   I
Vaginate------------Delavayanae             
   I                             I
   I                     P. delavay --------P .ludlowii
   I                             I
   I
   I
   I
P. ostii -P. jishanensis-P.qiui-P.yananensis-P. baokagensis-P.ridley-P.rockii-P.decomposita
                                                                                                    I
                                                                                             P. r.ssp.linyanshanii

He not accept P. suffruticosa ....he think it is a hybrid ....

I hope it is clear now

[Lesley Cox]

Lesley :

please look here :

http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2361.0

I do remember this but perhaps it was the exchange part that put me off asking as I suspect I have little that you would like. Was it you who wanted Gentiana depressa? There was none this year but as soon as there is, you shall have it and it does germinate well.

[Hans J]

Lesley ,

I was always thinking when I made a offer with exchange seeds so everybody who is interestet can wrote me a PM and ask - until now I have always found a way ....
No - I do not collect any Gentiana .....

Hans

[Lesley Cox]

Lesley ,

I was always thinking when I made a offer with exchange seeds so everybody who is interestet can wrote me a PM and ask - until now I have always found a way ....
No - I do not collect any Gentiana .....

Hans

In that case I have forgotten who wanted the Gentiana depressa seed. I hope whoever it is will see this and remind me. My usual system of making a note has fallen down.

[Guff]

How does everyone germinate their tree peonie seeds? Do you wait the two springs by planting them in the ground/pots?

The past two winters I have been starting them indoors, have had excellent results.

Two pictures are seedlings that I started Nov 26, 2008. Under 6 months from soaking the seed in Nov to having a leaf shoot in May.

.

[Eric Locke]

Guff - I find that they seed themselves around without any help. 

Eric

[Guff]

Yes, but starting indoors would take 1.5 years off of the germinating time and growing a leaf. I tried planting seeds right in the ground before and it took two springs to see a leaf. I had read in one of my peony books the first spring they just make a root, then the following spring they will put up a leaf.

[Sinchets]

Guff, I think it may depend on the freshness of the seed. I have grown P.rockii and P.lutea from seed, which germinated not long after it was sown, and the P.rockii flowered 4 years after sowing. Unless you have lots of spare time on your hands why make more work? 

[Regelian]

My experience mirrors Simons.  If I sow seed directly as they are ripe, they will germinate over the Winter and have their first leaves in the Spring.  They require a warm, moist period, followed by a cool period, then they show above the ground.  Apparently the germination actually starts during the warm period.  I often find fallen seeds germinating around the garden in Spring.  Once a seed has dried, it will require a good soak to bring it into form.  This has the advantage that the dried seed can be kept over years and then germinated.

[Guff]

Interesting. Do you soak the seeds before putting them in the ground? Do you make sure the soil stays moist? Are the seeds golden or black in color? Maybe I'm waiting to long collecting them? I wait till they turn black.

Reason for the extra work, I have never had any put up a leaf in one spring after planting in the ground. It has always taken two springs, to see a leaf shoot.

[Sinchets]

Why not try both methods? Sow some seeds in pots when ripe- I always thought this was when they turned black after the pods split- water the pots and leave them. Also sow some using your usual method. In the wild here I suppose Paeony seed will fall on dry gound over summer. If it is lucky it will find a hole or a crack in the soil to fall into. They will then get watered in well over the autumn before winter comes and covers them with snow- this also prevents them from freezing. In spring they get snow melt and then rain and I guess this is when they would normally germinate. Our job as gardeners is to try and mirror this in our gardens.

[Regelian]

I keep the seeds moist throughout the Summer, sometimes they are even wet for a few days to weeks, depending on weather.  Drying seems to delay germination.  As to the colour, as long as the pod is opening, it doesn't seem to matter.  I plant them regardless of ripeness.  I have even planted almost white seed with germination.  The colour has little to do with the fertility of the seed, but darker seeds that have fully ripened are believed to have more germination inhibitors.    You may want to treat them like delayed hypogeal lilium seed.  Put them in a bag or jar with moist peat/vermiculite/perlite and leave them at room temperature.  Check them every so often to see how they are.

[Sinchets]

I think I am a bit lazier. I am a put the seed in a pot and see what happens kind of person.