Aged Seed

[johnw]

I am looking a dozen or more large pots planted with Erythronium revolutum, Erythronium siberica and Scilla rosenii.

They were sown fresh in 2005. And still no signs of them.  Is it time to toss them?

johnw

[David Shaw]

I would be considering chucking them after four years, John. Throw them on the garden, ignoren them and watch them grow next year!

[Rodger Whitlock]

I am looking a dozen or more large pots planted with Erythronium revolutum, Erythronium siberica and Scilla rosenii.

They were sown fresh in 2005. And still no signs of them.  Is it time to toss them?

Erythronium revolutum, definitely toss. As long as the seed pot is kept damp, it should have germinated after one good winter (i.e. a year after sowing exchange seed).

As for the others, I'd poke around in the soil and see if there are still any sound seeds. If none are evident, toss those too.

Is it possible that you've coddled these seedpots and kept them too warm? I can't speak to the scilla, but E. revolutum for sure, possibly E. sibiricum, demand winter chilling.

[Paul T]

John,

Can I suggest that you disturb the surface of them where the seed is sown?  I had Erythronium seed (as well as Fritillaria seed) germinate after 4 years when I removed all the main bulbs and just put the mix back into the polystyrene boxes I was growing them in.  I had the little hooked jobbies that indicate fresh germination the following season, so the disturbance has to have triggered germination, and it wasn't just one or two either, but rather it was quite a few of them.  This included an Erythronium dens canis that I had had NO germination on at all (and it was teh only Erythronium in there so it must be that species), as the following year when they came back up there was a marbled leaf which means it couldn't be a Frit.  It still hasn't got to flowering size as yet to confirm for sure, but it is definitely an Erythronium.  This was definitely 4 years after sowing.

I have also in other pots at times had germination after digging down to carefully remove a single bulb after 2 years in a seed pot...... the following season a bunch more seed germinated. So it isn't just a one-off encounter.  It seems that the seed just needs to be distrubed to change the conditions enough to trigger it.  Worth a try before you recycle them?

[johnw]

Somehow I managed to delete my original letter. I had been asking about none sprouting hundreds of Erythronium revolutum & Scilla rosenii from 2005. They had been grown in pots.I had only 3 E. revolutum come up.  I emptied the pots and there was only one rotting seed coat of a Scilla rosenii.  Two of the revolutums just went dormant and I just bare-rooted them.  They are tiny "teeth", 1 no more than 1/4" and the other 1/16".  At the moment they are in a plastic envelope. Any recommendations of what to do now? Obviously repot but what about dampness and watering?

BTW they have gone dormant early as they flushed during the winter under sodium lights indoors at 4-6 degrees c.

johnw

[Rodger Whitlock]

Is it possible that you've coddled these seedpots and kept them too warm? I can't speak to the scilla, but E. revolutum for sure, possibly E. sibiricum, demand winter chilling.

Roger - Hmm... They were kept at about 4-6c each winter and kept evenly moist but not too moist.  Four seeds of about 200 of the revolutum came up in 2007, none since.

That's cold enough, methinks. The best stands of E. revolutum are at sites one can fairly describe as wet - not swampy, but plenty wet in winter, in some cases flooded. Incidentally, E. oregonum, au contraire, seems to prefer well-drained sites that go bone dry in summer.

[Lesley Cox]

I usually toss anything to be tossed, into the vegetable garden. It's amazing what comes up there under the lettuces (Primula reidii) or at the gravelly edge (Ranunculus semiverticillatus and Alstroemeria pygmaea, after 5 years.)

[johnw]

A pot of Blandfordia punicea seed, sown in early April has been kept warm and moist to date.  No sign of anything so far. Might it be time to toss the lot?

johnw

[Rodger Whitlock]

I usually toss anything to be tossed, into the vegetable garden. It's amazing what comes up there under the lettuces (Primula reidii) or at the gravelly edge (Ranunculus semiverticillatus and Alstroemeria pygmaea, after 5 years.)

I think it was Bob Woodward and Jim McPhail, who lived on the North Shore (across Burrard Inlet from Vancouver) who had the practice of dumping ungerminated pots out on the boulevard or road verge in front of their house. According to The Folklore, they had the most amazing garden develop there as ancient seeds germinated and then fought it out for lebensraum.

[Paul T]

John,

Did the seed come from northern or southern hemisphere?  I'm guessing from timing that it was probably from the southern hemisphere, but not entirely sure.  I find that quite often seed that shifts between hemispheres takes a bit longer to germinate as it has to get settled in to the climate you're in, rather than the climate it WAS in.  I would also never "throw out" anything under 18 months to 2 years from sowing, usually not until even longer.  Some things can take a surprisingly long time to germinate, even if some in the pot germinated in the first year.  Assume everything will take a couple of years and you're much safer.