Troughs

[rgc]

Hi
I note in the television page of today's Scotsman that this evening's Beechgrove Garden has an item where 'Carol Baxter demonstrates two ways of planting up Alpine troughs'.

Looking forward to disagreements in her approach from members of this forum!

However, good that alpine troughs are getting some publicity.
Bob

[ChrisB]

Does anyone know which Sky channel carries the Scottish BBC channel by chance?   I'd really like to watch what she does...

[Maggi Young]

Sky channel for  BBC Scotland will be somehwere between 950 and 985 -  it doesn't show up here for me because I'm in Scotland! If you scroll through those it will show you I'm sure.

 Remember the programme is also repeated on UK wide tv too.

I think it MAY be  Sky for BBC1 is channel 951   for BBC2 it's 971 - hope that  helps.

 Flippin' 'eck! Whata carry on- it seems these blasted channels keep changing - the Beechgrove twitter page says Sky channel  970

7:30pm on Wednesday 23rd July on BBC2 Scotland and on Sunday 27th June at 09:35am on BBC2 network.

[ChrisB]

Just tried it and ee by gum it's right!  Will be watching!  Thanks Maggi!

[fixpix]

Hello All,
Starting a new small business which also includes hypertufa troughs.
I am a bit confused.
On some sites, describing the perfect recipes, most mention Portland cement which they stress it's different from concrete.
The 3 troughs that I have were made with the use of normal cement that we buy from stores and which is used in construction (mixed in with sand, grit, lime and water, I guess).
Is this grey cement WRONG?
I don't think the clerks at stores have any idea what Portland cement is. I have no idea!

And can anyone write a good recipe for cold winters?
We can get -15-20 C here sometimes.

I think
1 part cement
1 part perlite
1 part peat
1 part sand 
water

should be just fine. Right?

Thanks,
Calin

[Ian Y]

Calin

The mixture that I use contains only  one part cement and three parts sand plus water of course.
It is best to use a  fine sand as used in making a mortar or brick laying cement mix.
I do not add porous materials such as perlite or peat and have never worked out why you would add those as they weaken the mix - I have tried that type of mix many times over the years but they always fall apart after a few years due to the continual freezing and thawing of our winters.
The new mixes work great  attracting lichens and mosses so after a few years  they look just like real stone.
check out the article in the latest Rock Garden or search the bulb log for more details on my cement troughs.

[astragalus]

Couldn't agree with you more.  The standard trough mix in the U.S. has always included peat etc.  In my climate, a particularly well-made one might last 5 years before repairs become necessary.  This is not very practical because once one of these troughs develops a weakness (cracks, etc) you are just staving off the inevitable of a trough self-destructing.  The ones that have made it long term have no peat or other "light" ingredients in the mix.  They will probably outlast me.  The others will be buried in the garden in order to preserve fabulous plants growing in them that can't be rescued any other way.

[Lesley Cox]

Originally, peat was included in the mix as a means to make the hypertufa troughs lighter in weight and so more easily moved. It worked to some extent but not, in my experience light enough to make them easily moveable for a lady of advancing years! And I agree with you Anne, the peat, or any organic matter such as pine bark fines which I used sometimes, gradually breaks down and the trough becomes weaker, especially around the edges, with frost getting in and breaking up the whole.

[johnw]

I made my first troughs in 1987 and they are still intact.  The mix was 1 part peat:1 part sand:1 part Portland cement. The rest were made using the same formula by Ken in the mid-90's and they have held up well also.  And this is an extremely rough climate with bumpy winter freeeze/thaws causing widespread road pot-holing.  I never liked the look of perlite in the mix, as well it quickly disintegrates to powder here after the first month or so of cold weather.

johnw

[fixpix]

Thank you all guys... and GOSH! This is bad news now to me
I was thinking about bringing something new to the Romanian people... but reading your posts, makes me rethink the whole thing!
I thought this hypertufa thing is great. Sturdy pots and troughs, "lighter", made of ingredients that are still new to most people around here, and well an entirely new thing, really.
But I wouldn't want to have customers coming back after a few rough winters and complain.
So there's really no "lighter" but cold-winter-resistant recipe other than just plain concrete?
Lucky me they were out of perlite yesterday at the shop I went to

[Maggi Young]

Yes, there is a lighter method - as Ian says, look at his bulb log  (and  if you are a full SRGC Member- at his article in the most recent journal) to see his method of making a cement trough with a polystyrene/styrofoam box inside it to make a trough that looks like stone but is not as heavy as a fully cement trough.

[Maggi Young]

I made my first troughs in 1987 and they are still intact.  The mix was 1 part peat:1 part sand:1 part Portland cement. The rest were made using the same formula by Ken in the mid-90's and they have held up well also.  And this is an extremely rough climate with bumpy winter freeeze/thaws causing widespread road pot-holing.  I never liked the look of perlite in the mix, as well it quickly disintegrates to powder here after the first month or so of cold weather.

johnw

We do hear of people like you who have had tremendous success with hypertufa troughs, John while others, like ourselves and Anne, have no luck with them at all. It's a very odd thing -I have yet to work out why this is - I suppose it is as puzzling as why plants perform so differently in apparently similar gardens in the same street!

[johnw]

Maggi - Strange isn't it.  The peat is quite fine but sifted for stray twigs and the sand much like beach sand sans sel.  Could it be the Portland cement of which I know absolutely nothing other than it is pretty hard on bare hands?

Here's a limited shot of some of the 1987 batch - the rectangulars and the later ones.  27 and 17 yrs. old respectively.

johnw

[Rick R.]

We, in USDA zone 4 Minnesota, have good success with hypertufa made with screened peat and vermiculite also.  Both of these ingredients disintegrate over time.  We (apparently) do two things differently from most others:

1 - In lieu of something like a chicken wire armature for strength, we use a fibermesh material that is incorporated throughout the mix.

2 - Unlike sand and perlite which quickly wet, peat and vermiculite take some time.  After all the ingredients are incorporated and before we construct with the mixture, there is a wait time of 15-20 minutes to allow for complete absorption of water.  Then, if more water is needed for the correct consistency, it can be added.  I read how people mist their finished products during the initial curing process.  In my opinion, they don't add enough water in the first place!

Edited to correct spelling

[John85]

Some gardeners incorporate polystyrene beads in their potting mix instead of grit.
I wonder if that would work for throughs.Of course a top dressing with real grit would be necessary to avoid any"escape".Maybe someone has already tried it.Would definitively improve the weight of the trough.