Lilium 2009

[Sinchets]

We missed the ones, which flowered last month in our local woods- but this one was still flowering on Tuesday at the foot of Mount Musala. One of the smallest flowered martagons we have seen, growing in pine duff on acid soils.
Lilium martagon

[Regelian]

This has turned into an interesting discussion on viri.  As I am not a real collector of Lilium at this point, it would seem to be wise to simply work with cultivars that are relatively resistant to virus.  I have quite a few seedlings coming along, which will be a good opportunity to do as Martin mentions; breed for viral resistance.  I do this with other plants; ie, healthy foliage, resistance to thrips, etc.  I've bloomed many beauties that didn't survive the rigours of my garden and that is good so.  I hardly have time to coddle everything (some do get coddled.  I, too, have moments of illogical weakness )

Thanks all for the input.  Puts things into perspective.

[rob krejzl]

Though I have to swallow hard, I have to ackowledge that with virus we are very often the authors of our own troubles, because so many of us want a named clone or a plant with a history, like Paul's gift from Essie H, that links us to someone. Breeding for resistance certainly allows commercial reproduction of a clone to proceed. Does it help anyone trying to build up a varied collection though? I'd rather all my plants were as susceptible as L. formosanum if it meant that I knew nothing was harbouring virus. A collection of seed-raised plants with more seed safe in the freezer seems slightly more attainable than a long breeding program to make everything more resistant.

[Martin Baxendale]

I agree, Rob. Breeding for virus resistance is an 'in an ideal world' sort of thing. The practical answer is strint rogueing and, as you say, raising from seed. The wanting old named varieties with a history is not unfamiliar territory to galanthophiles, and we too have our problems with virus.

[Paul T]

Martin,

Lachenalias (as an example) are a host for the viruses that badly effect Haemanthus etc.  They don't show up much on the Lachs, but streak and affect flowering on the Haemanthus.  Just an example for one "group" of plants affecting another.

[Boyed]

Very interesting topic we discuss.

I don't think that breeding virus-resistant varieties will be of so much help nowadays in the century of mechanical cultivation, which is very effective for mass production and time-saving, but not often effective in the means of virus spreading. The situation, related with virus, concerning tulips, lilies, daffodils, frits and some other bulbs seems to be O.K. there is few amount of virus plants occurring among these flowers, which is very appreciating. But as to some small bulbs like crocus, bulbous iris, muscari etc, the situation is quite opposite and I can say horrible - a large number of such Dutch produced bulbs turn out to be virused. I spoke several times about this problem with some Dutch growers; they admit that most of the Dutch stock is infected, but say that this virus is not that much harmful for this plants and that is why they don't pay much attention to it.

Anyway, as to me, I am not going to cultivate any bulbs carrying infection, because for the other bulbs it can be harmful. Indeed, very widely spread crocus leaf mosaic doesn’t affect tulips and daffodils, but it affect some other bulbs. Tulip colour-breaking virus affects lilies, but its damage on lilies is not as serious as in tulips.

I think the best way to somehow escape receiving virused plants, to get material from the companies, who don't orient on mass production. Some still cultivate bulbs without using any machines and still supply virus-free plants.

I established contacts with some serious Latvian and Lithuanian growers, who supply virus-free material of many plants, which are hard-to-find virus free in Holland. The thing is that their stock of these bulbs was obtained during 70s and 80s, when mechanical culture was not practiced in great scales in Holland. So they still grow virus free Dutch crocus vernus cultivars, iris reticulata cultivars, etc. I am quite happy with that. And from now I only prefer obtaining plants from individual growers and collectors and have the opportunities to grow virus-free plants. Though all new-commers at first go for strict quarantine, and then when everything is okay, join the main collection. This is the only way to have a healthy collection of bulbs.

[Lori S.]

A Lilium duchartrei in bloom here... only a single bud and stem, sadly:

[gote]

I certaily agree that virus is a menace. I grow several Liliums that probably would be killed within a couple of years if they got it.
For that reason i do not buy commercially available clones. Especially I am sceptical to virus resistant clones since these can infect my plants without showing much of symptoms.

The easy way to be sure is to grow from seed. In the days of Oregon Bulb farms virus was not much of a problem since they produced much of their materials as controlled strains. Thus every bulb was grown from seed. The clonally propagated stock plants were kept in aphid safe houses to prevent them from being infected.

It is possible to clean a Lilium clone. The virus does not grow as fast as the plant does. This means that the meristem tip usually is virus free. Meristem propgataion followed by tests for infection can produce clean stock. In those cases that this has been done to old cultivars they have been found to be markedly more vigorous than the infected parents.

We have to remember that a mass producer of bulbs wants cultivars that are easily propagated and grown to size so that they can be sold with good profit. That is not necessary the same as that they will grow well in the buyer's garden. We have today the proble - at least in sweden - that old cultivars well adapted to being grown our climate are being replaced by new ones that are adapted to quick propagation in the Dutch climate.

Göte


 
   

[gote]

A post script.
There was a small lily growing club in Stockholm once.
The no longer exist.
One member said to me:
"We found that we were not growing lilies - we were growing lily viruses so we quit"
Göte

[rob krejzl]

Breeding virus resistance is not simple though. I guess you'd have to infect lots of seedlings, then interbreed those that show no symptoms, and so on. But I can't see many plant breeders wanting work with lots of virused material.

This is exactly what OBF did when trying to increase virus resistance in L. auratum. Material was gathered from as many sources as possible and grown on in open fields together with plants which were known to be infected. Those which seemed unaffected were the basis for their future breeding.

[Martin Baxendale]

Breeding virus resistance is not simple though. I guess you'd have to infect lots of seedlings, then interbreed those that show no symptoms, and so on. But I can't see many plant breeders wanting work with lots of virused material.

This is exactly what OBF did when trying to increase virus resistance in L. auratum. Material was gathered from as many sources as possible and grown on in open fields together with plants which were known to be infected. Those which seemed unaffected were the basis for their future breeding.

Thanks, Rob. Interesting to know.

As someone else pointed out, there's a danger with virus-resistant plants in that they can infect non-resistant plants in a collection and because they show no symptoms, there are no warning signs of possible infection.

When mentioning breeding for virus resistance, I was really talking very theoretically. The practical obstacles, both in commerce and in private collections are huge, and the only practical answer right now is strict vigilance, rogueing and most importantly seed raising and seed sharing. I'm certainly not going to deliberately infect all my snowdrop seedlings with virus so I can find a few virus resistant survivors a few years down the line, just in case anyone starts to worry about accepting snowdrops from me in future.   

[Rafa]

Very nice pictures, this genus is very interesting to me but I have not many time to surffing in internet to learn more about it. I would like to ask you about any good book just about speices, not hybrids.
Any of yours have any list of hardy species in Z8. I have a seedling of Lilium wardii from SRGC seed list and don't know how hary is it.

Thank you

[johnw]

Lilium nepalense still giving a decent account of itself what with all the overcast weather.  

Also Lilium sargentiae selected in Denmark from a Jens Nielsen collection in China.  Flowers are on a small potted plant. The main bulb is 9 feet tall and too distant to photograph well.

johnw - sunny at the moment and getting warm & humid - +22c.

[Ragged Robin]

Wonderful trumpet shapes and I love the creamy green with those toffee coloured anthers, John

[Martin Baxendale]

Wow! That sargentiae is fantastic, John! The nepalense's not half bad either.

You say the sargentiae is a selection, so I assume it's clonal. Do you know if it produces almost as good offspring from seed? It really is a superb strong lily.