Lilium 2009

[Lesley Cox]

Real beauties, both.

[rob krejzl]

Very nice pictures, this genus is very interesting to me but I have not many time to surffing in internet to learn more about it. I would like to ask you about any good book just about speices, not hybrids.
Any of yours have any list of hardy species in Z8. I have a seedling of Lilium wardii from SRGC seed list and don't know how hary is it.

Thank you

Rafa,

The late Ed McRae's "Lilies, a guide for growers and collectors" is probably the most easily available and though it contains a lot of information on hybridising has a useful overview of species.

As for wardii, I grow it in zone 8/9 (though with summer maxima probably a lot less than yours). For others try joining the Yahoo lily list and going back through the recent messages - several people are growing species lilies in places like Hawaii.


Martin,

The OBF work is a perfect example of the application of population genetics principles to a situation like this. Sustained selection pressure applied to a population can rapidly (a couple of generations) change gene frequencies. The problem is not the amount of time needed but the quantity of resources you'd have to devote to it.


Now that I've finished boring people by talking about 'what I studied at college', time to go and rest my sore eyes.

[Martin Baxendale]

Yes, I can see that working on the scale of fields full of L. auratum you could get selection working pretty fast. I was thinking more of the sort of small-scale breeding that amateur growers and small nurserymen might go in for. Obviously a big international commercial crop like L. auratum would warrant that sort of scale of breeding work. Just the thought of walking through a field of auratum, though - must have been quite an experience!

[Brian Ellis]

The inside of L.nepalense and L.speciosum is just starting off too.

[johnw]

Wow! That sargentiae is fantastic, John! The nepalense's not half bad either.

You say the sargentiae is a selection, so I assume it's clonal. Do you know if it produces almost as good offspring from seed? It really is a superb strong lily.

Martin - We never seem to get seed on the nepalense or the sargentiae. The nepalense produces lots of offsets and the sargentiae both offsets and bulbils.  I'll drop some bulbils of the latter in the post, there are hundreds of them and they come up everywhere and in every pot.

The nepalense I got from a nursery in Vancouver. They had just imported them the very day I was there and this one stood out from the rest  - though Brian's looks pretty hot too. In iCal - an offset in the autumn to you.

johnw

[gote]

Wow! That sargentiae is fantastic, John! The nepalense's not half bad either.
You say the sargentiae is a selection, so I assume it's clonal. Do you know if it produces almost as good offspring from seed? It really is a superb strong lily.

Martin - We never seem to get seed on the nepalense or the sargentiae. The nepalense produces lots of offsets and the sargentiae both offsets and bulbils.  I'll drop some bulbils of the latter in the post, there are hundreds of them and they come up everywhere and in every pot.
johnw

Many - not all - Lilium are self -sterile. You need to get another clone too. Sargentiae is a tall lily that often needs staking. This is probably the reason why it is not more widely available in spite of proliferating so easily. The Dutch growers want to sell short lilies with upright flowers because these are demanded by the cut flower market.
Practically all lilies would be frost hardy in US zone 7. Some from northern areas might get too little winter rest chilling but this is a mere speculation from my side.
Feldmaier C, McRae J (1982) 'Lilien' Publisher 'Ulmer' is a superior book and it is available English translation. 'Lilies' (batsford) Try to google  'Antiquarian booksellers' ABEbooks have 23 in prices from US$ 4 and upwards
Göte

[Martin Baxendale]

Thanks, John. I'd love to grow on some bulbils. I used to have sargentiae many years ago but then most commercially available bulbs here became virused (but still sold and passed around virused because of the prodigous bulbil production that the species is famous for).

I was wondering if, being such a tall, strong selection, it might be polyploid, either a fairly infertile triploid or a fertile tetraploid. Fertile tetraploids will often produce very similar offspring from seed if crossed with a more normal diploid specimen, because the tetraploid contributes twice as much genetic material as the diploid. So I was thinking it might be possible to produce a continuously virus-free strain from seed. The problem with sargentiae is that it seems to get virus very easily (but then what lily doesn't!) The ability to reproduce such a superb specimen from seed as well as bulbils would be a very useful fall-back if virus took hold. But of course if your specimen is virus free then that's not an immediate concern, although worth checking out. When the bulbils get to flowering size, I'll have to see what other sources I can find for sargentiae and try some crosses.

[gote]

I do not have any list here but I think that the RHS Lily Group seedlist often has seeds of sargentiae. I once flowered it from seed myself and it was just as big so I see no particular reason why it should polyploid.
Göte

[Martin Baxendale]

Gote, I just thought John's sargentiae might have been selected for its size and vigour. Nine feet tall sounds pretty big to me. I never got sargentiae to grow that big, but then I don't have ideal conditions on my dry south-facing limey hillside. If that's about standard size for sargentiae in ideal conditions then no, maybe not polyploid. The other thing that interested me was that John says it increases well by division and that it doesn't seem to have become virused although it sounds like it's been around for a while as a clone, which indicate some vigour, even if not due to polyploidy.

John, some more history about the clone would be interesting if you have it - how long ago it was selected, for example. Even if not polyploid, it's a very vigrous-sounding clone, healthy and a great looker, so good breeding material, which is useful in the event that the clone becomes virused.

[gote]

I admit that the nine feet did not register with me. My own was by far the tallest Lilium I have ever grown but it was far from nine feet.
Göte

[Anthony Darby]

I usually get seed from my Lilium nepalense each year. Offsets too. I have a pot of seedlings and a couple of last season's offsets.

[johnw]

John's sargentiae

John, some more history about the clone would be interesting if you have it - how long ago it was selected, for example. Even if not polyploid, it's a very vigrous-sounding clone, healthy and a great looker, so good breeding material, which is useful in the event that the clone becomes virused.

 

Martin et al  - I got the first bulbil of this Danish selection in 1996. It was selected in Denmark by E. jespersen who has a keen eye for good plants, ex a collection by Jens Nielsen (NW Yunnan I presume).  You forced me to go through all my correspondence from him as I had not recorded the date of receipt in the inventory.  (And to note I have killed an entire collection of Pleiones from him over the years.)   I assume the lily was selected for its good flower which, by the way, is showing little sign of its usual exterior pink striping and yellow interior this year due to the grey skies here for 7 weeks.  Its height may be due to the constant daily moisture we have been getting.  A shot from last year is attached.

As with the nepalense no seed is due to selfing.

johnw - sunny & 26c at 6:45 pm AST

[Anthony Darby]

John, I could send you some nepalense which would give you a chance to get seed?

[Martin Baxendale]

Thanks, John. Sorry to have indirectly reminded you about the pleiones. If I start remembering the plants I've killed, I'll still be here this time next week. 

Sounds like the sargentiae has been around a long time as a clone without succumbing to virus. A very worthwhile selection.

[johnw]

Anthony  - Thanks for the nepalense offer.  Maybe some pollen tout de suite would do the trick?

johnw