Helleborus thibetanus from seed

[johnw]

I have warm sown fresh Helleborus thibetanus seed. Now I read on the internet that it may not follow the usual ways of Helleborus seed - i.e. 3 months warm then 2 months cool/cold with sprouting in cool weather.  Some say it may take 2 years to sprout and that its requirements are different and basically unknown. Germination rate very poor.  Would anyone care to comment?

We have tried to grow imported plants on several occasions, all those from China rather quickly looked viral and died within a year or so.  So we are anxious to start with clean stock from seed thanks to a generous forumist.

johnw -

[Stephen Vella]

Hi John,
Germination of H thibetanus will germinate in one year but the cotyledons are beneath the ground, they do not emerge at all (dont know the technical term for this) You will then see the first true leaves emerge the year after, so it will take 2 years to see any sign of germination. These emerge in the winter months. I've had some germinate and yes do expect a low rate of germoination and also watch out for snails as they tend to like this species, they will mow them down but dont throw them out if this happens as it will shoot again (this happened to a friends collection) as the dormant bud is beneath the ground not like H x hybrids that have a set of ctyledons and bud above the ground. It will shoot back the year after.

Interesting to hear that a chinese collection is coming in virused. I wonder why??

Cheers

[gote]

I have lost one from China but three look well. They take time to settle in and they go naturally dormant in mid season. I have the problem that they easily get a kind of fungus. It seems that benomyl helps against that.
Do you know for sure that it is virus?
Seedlings that germinated and survived in your own climate will of course always likely to be more vigorous than imported stock.
Göte

[Magnar]

I have 3 plants, all imported from China at different times. They grow happily and have no signs of virus or fungi so far. The oldest must be 5 years now. I have not tried to grow them from seeds yet, but one plant now has seed that will be ready very soon. I have planned to sow them, so thanks for the information in this thread.

[johnw]

Are you sure that it is virus?
Göte

Thanks all.


Göte

The leaves gradually thickened and had black streaks.

johnw

[Tony Willis]

hi John

I do not agree with Stephen.I would expect if you have sown the fresh seed now it will germinate in the late autumn as the weather cools producing cotyledons above ground and then true leaves by spring.

I keep them just frost free the first winter to get them going.

An interesting divergence of opinion!

[Diane Whitehead]

I have one plant in my garden from Thimble Farms. I'm not sure of the source -
Richard grows many of his plants from seed.

Up till now, I have not had luck germinating seeds, even from my own plant.
 However, that has just changed.

Last August I was given 15 seeds which I sowed immediately in ziplock bags
and treated like H. x hybridus.  Hybridus would have germinated soon after
the weather cooled, but thibetanus did not.  Yesterday, almost a year from
sowing, I noticed that radicles had emerged.  There are only 8 seeds left,
so it seems that half must have been non-viable and disappeared.

Normally, I would put the contents of the bag into a pot as soon as germination
occurs, but I will keep these seeds in the bag so I can observe what is happening
with them.

[Stephen Vella]

Hi Tony,

If you have the book Hellebores by C.Colston Burrell & judith Knott Tyler, read page 106 under the title propagation quote"Helleborus thibetanus usually takes two full seasons to germinate. The seedlings lack visible cotyledons, which stay inside the seed and instead rely on a 3 lobed true leaf for photosynthesis the first season.

I definatately have H thibetanus geminating, maybe you have some other sp germinating?

Diane it would be interesting to see what emerges. You may see something as the weather cools, looks like a slow process happening.

I have H thibetanus emerging now and showing a flower bud (winter here)

Cheers

[Tony Willis]

Stephen

I have just seen your post. I have not seen the book but perhaps my seeds have not read it either and do not understand the word 'usually'.

I can definitley say I have the true thibetanus and also that they have 'always' germinated the first year.I have grown several generations from seed and am waiting for this years seed to germinate.I do not dry them off.They are sown the day they ripen and are kept moist all summer.This may affect the time it takes to germinate.

I may be completly wrong on the germination method as to the cotyledons and true leaves and will make an observation when they eventually come up and report it.I was depending on memory which is on occasions starting to fade.

[Stephen Vella]

Hi Tony,

keep us posted on your observations.  You will be surprised as I was when my seedlings sent up true leaves and no cotyledons.

cheers

[Tony Willis]

hi Stephen
just a note to say that my seed which ripened in June and was sown the same day has germinated. I expect it is just skill !! I am sure you are correct about the leaves and that my memory of previous germinations was faulty but I expect to see them above ground in a few weeks if they do not damp of. I will keep you informed