Cleaning berries

[Rodger Whitlock]

I spent some time this morning on stage 3 of preparing seed of Crataegus douglasii, one of the black-fruited hawthorns. I have a large specimen of this west coast native, so large that it surely pre-dates development of the area 45 years ago. My specimen is generally admitted to be the largest anyone familiar with the species has seen. It's about 12 m high; white flowers in spring, 10 mm diameter black fruit in late summer, fairly colorful foliage in the fall.

Stage 1 was the gathering, but that was easy, though time-consuming. I'd had to cut away a number of low-hanging branches since the tree is quite thorny and low branches can stab the unwary. Gathering berries meant picking them off the prunage. an easy task performed while sitting on the lawn.

Stage 2 was gently crushing the berries, then mixing them with water and allowing the mixture to ferment for over a week.

Stage 3 was separation of pulp and skins from the seeds via a process much like gold panning. Now the seeds are drying on a paper towel. When thoroughly dry, I'll pick through them and remove any remaining bits of foreign matter, then they'll be ready for packaging.

The question is whether seed of a medium-sized tree like this is something of reasonable interest to rock gardeners and suitable for donation to the SRGC & AGS seed exchanges. After all, few or none of us have gardens with nothing but alpines and such. Naturally, some of the seed will go to the AGCBC in Vancouver as a native plant, whence (according to their seed director) a few botanical gardens will order it. But home gardeners?

[cohan]

rodger's diligence prompted me to make a small beginning on some berry cleaning as well..
i thought his process sounded like a good starting point at least, though i dont have the same kind of berries;
i started with some actaea rubra, already mushy in a plastic bag, and put them in water; then i started the gently squeezing part, but found the seeds mostly popped right out at that point, leaving not much behind other than skin and just a bit of pulp..probably a good berry to start on,as its quite easy(hardly finished..) though it would still be time consuming for any number...

this reminds me, though, of a question i had while picking some of these poisonous berries--should i be worried about handling poisonous berries with my bare hands? both the juicy picking stage, and this messy cleaning stage....

[David Shaw]

As a seed packeter may I use this topic to make a plea to donors of berry seeds - please clean them now whilst the fruit part is soft and workable. We often get Arisaema (as an example) berries and are expected to clean them ourselves. Come December the fruiting body is like rubber and takes a long time to remove. All seeds are much easier to clean when collected.
Sorry, Rodger. Regarding your query I would certainly recommend that you submit some of your Crataegus seed. I would not have a use for them myself but I am sure that some other members may.

[Lori S.]

this reminds me, though, of a question i had while picking some of these poisonous berries--should i be worried about handling poisonous berries with my bare hands? both the juicy picking stage, and this messy cleaning stage....

I would advise not to lick your fingers!    My inclination... though I hope someone can advise sensibly... would just be wash my hands afterwards.  Is that too little caution?  I dunno...

http://montana.plant-life.org/species/actaea_rub.htm

(But then my example may not be a good one to follow... I was cutting off old over-wintered stems of Euphorbia myrsinites on Saturday evening.  The sap, which causes contact dermatitis for some, doesn't bother my hands, but I must have brushed my hand across my jawline at some point, since I woke up Sunday with redness and swelling, and something that felt like prickly heat along my jaw and chin... no big deal, but some caution is in order, and I will be more careful in the future, LOL!)

[Rodger Whitlock]

... I was cutting off old over-wintered stems of Euphorbia myrsinites on Saturday evening.  The sap ... doesn't bother my hands, but I must have brushed my hand across my jawline at some point, since I woke up Sunday with redness and swelling, and something that felt like prickly heat along my jaw and chin... no big deal, but some caution is in order, and I will be more careful in the future,

I am trying to eradicate all euphorbias from my garden because of their sap. Too hazardous for my tastes. Unfortunately at one time I grew two or three species and seedlings keep turning up.

As for handling, or not, berries of plants known to be toxic, I suggest wearing synthetic nitrile rubber gloves and avoiding skin contact with the berries as much as possible. Those are the pale blue gloves often worn by auto mechanics - you can buy them quite cheaply from any auto parts supply, usually in boxes of 100.

Doris Page, whom I have mentioned before, once ended up with quite large blisters on her fingers after cleaning hellebore seed, so the hazards are wider than one might think.

[cohan]

i dont have any currently, since they didnt like my light in toronto, and i havent acquired any since moving, but i used to grow a number of (naturally sub/tropical african species) of euphorbia indoors; never had any concerns or reaction to sap, not that i made a point of playing with it!

i finished my batch of red actaea berries tonight; perhaps had i read lori's link first i might have waited til i had better gloves available meant to grap a couple from work, but forgot, though those are vinyl, and unless the gloves were really snug/unmoving, dealing with those little seeds would be a real pain... i did wear a plastic glove on one hand for part of the process....so far i havent noticed any changes in cardio behaviour! and certainly no skin irritation..
also did some Lonicera involucrata berries--forget now if they are poisonous or just inedible, but they certainly are highly coloured! hands are just slightly stained black/purple... should be gone tomorrow...
i was wondering about those while collecting them, since they were colouring my hands then too... re: not licking fingers, i had to keep it in mind while collecting, since i did run into edible berries between...lol

dont think i will have too many poisonous species to deal with, fortunately...

[fermi de Sousa]

Rodger,
my partner, Will, is mad about Crataegus and as he is entitled to a seed allocation with SRGC I'm sure he'll order some of yours!
cheers
fermi

[ChrisB]

I know of a number of people within the membership of SRGC and AGS who like to grow trees from seed, so I'm sure they would like a chance to obtain some of your seeds Roger.  Alas, I'm in a smallish garden and have no room for trees myself.

[cohan]

cleaned some prunus seeds today--by far the easiest so far--i ate the berries and spit out the pits
don't worry, i will wash the seeds before sending to anyone

[Lori S.]

Well, that is one way of doing it...   

[cohan]

Well, that is one way of doing it...   

only for rather modest quantities ... besides, its sort of research, i'm testing what the different species taste like at different times..of course the most abundant berries are the least tasty....

[cohan]

any tips/shortcuts on cleaning cornus canadensis berries? there is an almost wooly pulp thats very hard to get rid of...

[Rodger Whitlock]

any tips/shortcuts on cleaning cornus canadensis berries? there is an almost wooly pulp thats very hard to get rid of...

A method to try: take your food processor and use the plastic dough mixing blade to bash them around (in water), then allow the mess to ferment for a week or two. The key feature is to damage the exterior so as to give bacteria and yeasts access to the pulp. No food processor? Then run a rolling pin over them to break the skins and crush the pulp somewhat.

Or even pour them out on a concrete surface and using the sole of your shoe roll them back and forth to achieve the same end.

If you try this, please report back on the results.

[When I first read your message, I misread "wooly" as "woody".]

[cohan]

any tips/shortcuts on cleaning cornus canadensis berries? there is an almost wooly pulp thats very hard to get rid of...

A method to try: take your food processor and use the plastic dough mixing blade to bash them around (in water), then allow the mess to ferment for a week or two. The key feature is to damage the exterior so as to give bacteria and yeasts access to the pulp. No food processor? Then run a rolling pin over them to break the skins and crush the pulp somewhat.

Or even pour them out on a concrete surface and using the sole of your shoe roll them back and forth to achieve the same end.

If you try this, please report back on the results.

[When I first read your message, I misread "wooly" as "woody".]

i dont have an attachment like that on my food processor... but actually, breaking--in fact removing, the skins is very easy--one squeeze and off it comes, leaving the pulp intact; i did soak some for a while---maybe not long enough? a week or less, and it didnt really get any easier to remove than when freshly squeezed..i also rubbed the pulp in a metal mesh strainer, which didnt have much impact on it ..maybe i'll try leaving some longer...thanks\
these are the opposite of Maianthemum canadense--those are easy to clean, but not very abundant (the berries, that is, plants are everywhere)..the cornus berries are superabundant, but a pain to clean!

wooly i guess is better than woody...lol

[johnw]

Cohan  - At the Arnold Arboretum they had an old blender with the blades covered in heavy duty elastic bands like the ones they put on lobster claws.   The bands were roughly wrapped around the blades so as not to perfectly flat. A few jogs and the seeds are separated.  I have been banned from using the food processor but will be interested in your results. Still using the microwave late at night.

johnw