Crocus to identify? Post them here....

[Margaret Thorne]

Sorry, the pictures seem to have disappeared. Hope it works this time.

[Janis Ruksans]

Please can anyone tell me the name and anything about the distribution of this Crocus which I photographed on Samos in October 1993? My apologies for the fuzzy pictures which I assume are colour variants of the same species.
At the Early Bulb Show a couple of year’s ago, I think Janis showed a picture of a similar dark throated Crocus from Samos and called it a variety of Crocus pallasii. But I can’t remember the name of the variety.

I think it is pallasii subsp. pallasii, very variable species. Similar plant shown by me was from Chios island. Both, Samos and Chios are just at Turkish coast.
Janis

[tonyg]

Please can anyone tell me the name and anything about the distribution of this Crocus which I photographed on Samos in October 1993? My apologies for the fuzzy pictures which I assume are colour variants of the same species.
At the Early Bulb Show a couple of year’s ago, I think Janis showed a picture of a similar dark throated Crocus from Samos and called it a variety of Crocus pallasii. But I can’t remember the name of the variety.

Yes, I agree with Janis.  I have seen a form like this in cultivation also from Samos.

[Margaret Thorne]

Thank you, Janis and Tony. What lovely plants they all are - especially the Chios ones.

[TheOnionMan]

Thank you, Janis and Tony. What lovely plants they all are - especially the Chios ones.

I agree, the Chios form is stunning, but so is the Kaya-Bash one with the deep purple netting.  I have a sole C. pallasii ssp. pallasii, flowers very late every autumn, has lots of flowers and a wonderful scent, but in 7 years it has never increased nor set any seed (that I'm aware of). Is this species always so slow?  I uploaded a photo from 2005.

Great to see the wide variety of flower forms in C. pallasii, didn't realize they were so variable.

[tonyg]

I have never had a form of C pallasii which increased freely by corm division.  There must be some clones that will increase better than others.  Janis will know!  As for seed, you get much more seed if you grow several clones ... so with just the one corm it will be sloooow.  Nice to see it garden grown.

[Janis Ruksans]

I have never had a form of C pallasii which increased freely by corm division.  There must be some clones that will increase better than others.  Janis will know!  As for seed, you get much more seed if you grow several clones ... so with just the one corm it will be sloooow.  Nice to see it garden grown.

Completely agree with Tony. Some clones split quite well, some individuals - not. It is common in any species. For seed crop you need another clone for cross-pollination. Crocus pallasii normally set seeds very well but I have more than 20 different clones/pots of it.
Janis

[I.S.]

Janis your pallasi from Chios  is wonderful. with long style and blackish anthers seems very lovely!

[Sinchets]

When we have seen Crocus pallasii pallasii in the wild here it can be in quite large colonies, but the plants are generally found as individuals. The high degree of variability in the colours of neighbouring plants emphasises that seed is the main way they increase in an area. We have alwasy assumed that the lack of large patches from one possible mother plant was due to predation of older bulbs. This does however mirror what we see here in C.biflorus adamii- a species which does 'bulk up' in cultivation. Maybe some forms will be better 'splitters' than others in cultivation.

[Janis Ruksans]

When we have seen Crocus pallasii pallasii in the wild here it can be in quite large colonies, but the plants are generally found as individuals. The high degree of variability in the colours of neighbouring plants emphasises that seed is the main way they increase in an area. We have always assumed that the lack of large patches from one possible mother plant was due to predation of older bulbs. This does however mirror what we see here in C.biflorus adamii- a species which does 'bulk up' in cultivation. Maybe some forms will be better 'splitters' than others in cultivation.

Yes, Simon. Will take any chrysanthus or biflorus s.l. crocus. Cultivars split very well and makes clumps in one year, wild material in cultivation - some corm splits at same speed as garden hybrids, some stay one for years. I had marvellous selections of Crocus korolkowii. Kiss of Spring every year forms 4-5 new corms in place of one, Glory of Samarkand (the best and lost later) in five years raised to 3 corms only! With C. korolkowii even in wild you can see clumps, but mostly in wild are individuals. I found only one clump of Crocus mathewii in wild, all others (thousands) were only individuals, rarely 2 identical (pallasii is close relative to mathewii). The same we can observe in any species. I think I wrote about this in BURIED TREASURES. Vegetative splitting in nature is dead end. For species important is good seed crop, not splitting - just opposite to gardeners wishes.
Janis

[Thomas Huber]

.... but in 7 years it has never increased nor set any seed (that I'm aware of). Is this species always so slow? 

Mark, I have several clones of pallasii and they all had a very good seed set in the last years
(and also increased by corm division). If they do the same this year I could send you some seeds.

[TheOnionMan]

.... but in 7 years it has never increased nor set any seed (that I'm aware of). Is this species always so slow? 

Mark, I have several clones of pallasii and they all had a very good seed set in the last years
(and also increased by corm division). If they do the same this year I could send you some seeds.

Thomas, that would be wonderful... I would gladly accept your offer of seed because part of the problem with no seed set here, I only have the one clone, so it would be good to increase the potential for cross pollination.

[Thomas Huber]

Please remind me again in summer.

[Sinchets]

Are there some forms of plants that are better increasers or seeders than others? I say this as my 'commercial' forms of Crocus niveus all bulk up well, and flower like crazy, but never set seed. The ones I have from wild collected seed bulk up more slowly but set lots of seed. The Crocus cartwightianus I bought as 1 corm is now planted everywhere and always sets seed- but it will effectively be selfed. I have two commercial froms of Crocus cancellatus mazziariucs- both of them are white and they flower maybe a week apart. They self and set seed. Yet the commercial forms of C.etruscus and C.sieberi 'Albus' I have never set seed. Just one of those big 'I wonder why?" questions.

[Thomas Huber]

Simon, commercial plants were selected by their increasing rates. Slow increaser stand for less money
so they will be sorted out/sold and only the good increasers will be kept and grown on.
Many of these good increasers are sterile, others are self fertile, that's why they don't set seed.
In the wild it is better for the survival of the species to set seed. Seeds will spread to a broader area from the mother
plant and of course they are mixed by the genes of mom and daddy-plant, from which only the best will survive.