Crocus to identify? Post them here....

[krisderaeymaeker]

Together with my brother we bought this Crocus at te same time and place. It is labelled as Crocus oreocreticus...
They have both flowered but as you can see there is a difference between the two.Now we had a discussion on our Flemish forum ...
Which one is true or wrong? Could anyone help us please?
Edit by maggi: the last photo is full size and will not enlarge when clicked.

Sorry ,something goes wrong with the picture from my brother. I made a correction now and it is possible to enlarge now .
So ...anybody an idea ?

[Gerry Webster]

I would say that picture no.3 is C. oreocreticus - though my identifications are frequently wrong! What is the external flower colour?  C. oreocreticus  is said by Mathew to have a  "distinct silvery, whitish or buff overlay" externally.

[Janis Ruksans]

Allached are pictures of oreocreticus
Janis

[krisderaeymaeker]

Thanks Gerry and Janis . Photo 3 looks in some way (some features) on the photos posted by janis. Still missing following aspects:
"Style divides at or just above the throat of the flower into three red branches."  You can find this aspect (wich I found in a description of this oreocreticus  )in pics 1 & 2 .
Or do we forgot this aspect with the three red branches?

[Gerry Webster]

Thanks Gerry and Janis . Photo 3 looks in some way (some features) on the photos posted by janis. Still missing following aspects:
"Style divides at or just above the throat of the flower into three red branches."  You can find this aspect (wich I found in a description of this oreocreticus  )in pics 1 & 2 .
Or do we forgot this aspect with the three red branches?

Kris - according to Mathew the style branches are sometimes - rarely - yellow as in your plant. I had one with this colour several years ago. The colour on the outside of the flower is significant & clearly visible in Janis' pics.

[jnovis]

Any idea`s on this crocus,flowering today? Stamens are proud of closed bud before opening.

[Gerry Webster]

Jim - I would say C. niveus.

[krisderaeymaeker]

Kris - according to Mathew the style branches are sometimes - rarely - yellow as in your plant. I had one with this colour several years ago. The colour on the outside of the flower is significant & clearly visible in Janis' pics.

Many thanks Gerry .I was a few days out (flu) but I am back now.Our Flemish specialist -Hendrik Van Bogaert- also confirms that picture 3 is oreocreticus.
Picture 1 & 2 looks to him as hadriaticus.
So my brother can keep his labels and I have to change the label in aff.hadriaticus or even hadriaticus.

[Graeme Strachan]

In my posting of Crocus in Pots page 16, http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=6079.225 the following was posted regarding the picture that I posted of what I thought was cancellatus ssp. cancellatus.

  Graeme, your cancellatus should be subsp. mazziaricus to me!

Regarding cancellatus ssp. cancellatus, Mathew says: "Bract and bracteole white membranous, very unequal, the bracteole hidden within the tubular bract."
Regarding cancellatus ssp. mazziaricus, Mathew says "Bract and Bracteole unequal but the tip of the bracteole visible, exserted from the tubular bract"

The following are photos of the crocus concerned. Can anyone clarify what I have as I am a bit confused?

               regards

                Graeme Strachan

[olegKon]

I seem to have the same. Unfortunately, no idea of what it is. Obviously not Crocus cartwrightianus as it was received

[Janis Ruksans]

Too little details seen, but seem to be commercial C. cancellatus cilicicus which is subsp. cancellatus.
Janis

[olegKon]

Thank you, Janis. I'm affraid no more details will be available this year as it's going to be cold soon

[I.S.]

 Janis, still I am not sure about this subsp. cancellatus. I have visited botanic garden of İstanbul University and NGBB botanical garden (special garden for turkish native bulbs) Director of this garden is an old prof. from üniversty. I checked specialy this subsp. There was not bracteole visible at all, outer petals have not dark stain like this and throat were looking yellowish. I have some other  pics from other forum taken in wild, they also have not bracteole! and throath looks yellowish.
 Here are my samples for two subspecieses. (my mazziaricus is not so dark because it is not selected at all)
 If we could know original where it came so we can judge more?

[Janis Ruksans]

Janis, still I am not sure about this subsp. cancellatus. I have visited botanic garden of İstanbul University and NGBB botanical garden (special garden for turkish native bulbs) Director of this garden is an old prof. from üniversty. I checked specialy this subsp. There was not bracteole visible at all, outer petals have not dark stain like this and throat were looking yellowish. I have some other  pics from other forum taken in wild, they also have not bracteole! and throath looks yellowish.
 Here are my samples for two subspecies. (my mazziaricus is not so dark because it is not selected at all)
 If we could know original where it came so we can judge more?

Ibrahim & Oleg
On your pictures (Oleg's) seem to be pictured commercially available form of Crocus cancellatus, known as cancellatus cilicicus. By Brian Mathew this form belongs to subsp. cancellatus. I checked it several years ago and found that in this stock position of bract and bracteole is quite variable from season to season and betwen specimens. Original stock (from Dutch company) turned virus infected and was destroyed after the first seed crop and now I have its seedlings - quite uniform in color, only back color in some specimens is darker but I didn't check more position of bracteole. It is the single form of cancellatus growable here in open garden, so I suppose that Oleg's plants belong to the same form (cilicicus).
Janis

[Janis Ruksans]

Here is few pictures of cancellatus cilicicus seedlings. Note the dark color of style, same as on Oleg's pictures.
Janis