Where are the younger members

[David Nicholson]

Fascinating discussion folks. My own take is that a Web based Society (SRGC) will surely come in time and the art will be in planning and budgeting for the change in order to allow it to happen in a seamless and fully thought out way. The Society that achieves this will continue to prosper and the Society that fails will fall by the wayside.

I don't know, but would think that the printing and mailing of the Journal is perhaps the largest amount of expenditure the Club incurs and if it is then it is here that savings could be made or be diverted towards the costs of other initiatives. Yet, as has rightly been said, some Members have not wished to harness new technology and never will, whilst others are happy to try and this is fine in the short term but can not apply in the longer term.

Although, in the main part, I have harnessed the technology, I do not get a great deal of pleasure in reading more than just a few pages of an article or document on my computer screen, and, unless pushed, I doubt if I ever will. So the Journal is something to savour over a cup of coffe, or, much preferably, a glass of something stronger on days when I can't get outside. But, I recognise that the change will come and I have to be ready for it too.

[Maggi Young]

Yes, David, costs for printing and mailing the twice yearly Journal are about the highest expenditure the Club has ..... it would be higher yet  if our Editor, who is a volunteer, like the rest of us, received a salary as happens in other societies  

[tonyg]

I too like to hold my journal ... there are places you cannot take the computer ... the experience is better on paper so-to-speak.  I hope the printed journal never dies.  If journals like this go what future for books?  Music has gone from vinyl through tape to CD, DVD, MP3, iPod in my brief lifetime.  There are manuscripts written hundreds of years ago that still survive to be played today, will todays music be heard in 200 years time?  Will digital books still be readable?  .... Am I just an old fogey

My current thought is that there could / should be an e-membership rate, at a lower charge.  It could include eligibility for the seed-ex as an incentive to pay the fee.  These members would not receive anything by post (except the seed they have paid for if using the seed exchange.)  I suspect that right now the extra members will be relatively few but I would expect them to rise considerably in number in future.

[Richard Green]

Excellent thoughts everyone - but it is obvious where this is leading as Tony points out.  I am computer literate - like all of us - and I must have the paper Journal (as many have already said) for ease of use whilst computers are still inconvenient.  I will maintain my subscription at the full price just to get it in that format, as well as entry to the shows that I am lucky enough to be within travelling distance of etc etc. 

However electronic books are already available with the actual computer hardware coming in a small book-sized format.  But until that is available to everyone the paper version wins hands down.

There are many Forumists who have no other contact with the club, and may or may not be Club members.  It would be only fair that Forum-only users to pay sufficient to at least maintain the Website and Forum, inculding probably a share of club overheads to cover Maggi's time etc.  Presumably we are all able to pay online?

Why not decide on a suitably low subscription rate, and let anyone join the Forum free of charge for a limited time, but then limit access after 6 months or a year (say) unless a payment is made.  We all make much of our friendliness, knowledge and expert advice, but non-paying freeloaders and lurkers must accept that knowledge has a price - even if modest.

The flip side of this is that an email address would have to be given privately to the Forum Moderator and someone could then contact those who lapsed their membership after the free period to give them the personal approach and suggest that they pay to join up seriously. This is the demonstrating the "going the extra mile" approach of the Club, and should be difficult to refuse.
 
Hope this is not too provocative, it is not meant to be, but if we offer a unique service then I hope that most would recognise that and pay their way.

[maggiepie]

I am wondering what would happen to the cost of printing the journal if half the members decided to download it.
Would  it cost more to print fewer journals?

[ChrisB]

What an interesting thread. 

You are quite right, Helen, printing costs for small quantities are not feasible.  And a large magazine put on line would be a very big file, and not easy to download or read on line.  However, if its what people want, I think its worth investigating, and I'm sure Ian is doing just that.  Whatever it takes to increase our membership we must try to do.

But our existing membership includes many people that have yet to discover the delights of this forum, some because they simply have not embraced internet technology and actually don't have a computer, others who do, but don't feel computer literate enough to come here, and a number who simply don't feel they have the time.  So the printed version of our magazine is likely to last quite a long time yet I think. 

What I scratch my head over though is the fact that there is a massive baby boom generation about to retire, but our memberships are declining.  These are the very people, it is suggested in this thread, who do gravitate towards hobbies such as gardening.  So if there are more of them in this age group, why isn't membeship increasing?  It doesn't make sense to me. 

Others have also said that a very similar situation exists in all the gardening groups - AGS and HPS, so it is a trend.

I know that's off piste so to speak, as this thread is talking about young members, but it is an issue nevertheless and somewhat related to things that have been said.

[Maggi Young]

Good point, Helen, often it can cost more to print less, as you rightly say.  

Richard,
There are no website costs for anybody's time, we are  volunteers.  Fred does any high tech stuff / programming for a fraction of what his commercial fee would be, for which  I hope everyone is extremely grateful, and he volunteers the rest.  
A very few SRGC Office Bearers receive a small honorarium to cover out of pocket expenses etc, but there are no employees of the club.
I do what I do for the Forum and for the other website related things, preparing content, dealing with  email enquiries and so on, in the same spirit as I do what I can for my local SRGC Group.... because it's there!    

Website costs are mostly paying for servers , bandwidth etc. which with the traffic on the site, is increasing all the time.  

[Maggi Young]

You're right, Christine, we cannot talk about attracting younger members without talking about membership generally.

I do take some solace from the fact that I hear from all sorts of other clubs and societies that they are struggling to keep up membership numbers, too. I do believe that it is a trend of the moment; our hope must be that as with all "trends" this apathy for joining clubs will pass and a new enthusiasm be found.  When that happens, a strong internet presence is surely going to be a great beginning to foster interest , as various members have said.

Onwards, and upwards.... the Forum is managing that, at least! 

[Ragged Robin]

Congratulations to the SRGC on their 1000th Member!  A real high spot as Maggi rightly says.  I'm sure who ever it is will be delighted with their T -shirt.....another good innovation (along with the Polo shirts and Tote Bags) for advertising the Club which I have had comments on whilst wearing 

I do feel that with Christmas coming a Club Membership would make a great present too and I have a couple of friends in mind.  So what I'm trying to say is that there are lots of ways, however small that awareness of the Club can be fostered and enjoyed 

The internet is the way forward for Clubs to survive, I have no doubt, and internet advertising will be huge in the future - I think this is an area which could be looked into more deeply - at the moment only a few advertisers are in the banner on the Forum.  This could bring in more revenue regularly and help to alleviate the pressure on the way forward for Membership fees.   

[Richard Green]

Maggi, I do appreciate the amazing amount of unpaid time and effort that you and everyone puts in.  I just feel that nobody should take it for granted - especially those that drop in for free infomation.  I should have said that the charge could cover the "notional" cost of time, as well as the actual cost of the website servers etc.

I know we are not a commercial organisation, but we should look at it from the point of view of "value to the end-user" rather than "cost to the club", and there is clearly much value to the Forum otherwise membership would not be increasing.

Music downloaders have embraced the concept of paying to download.  Our site is not that different, and potential younger members will accept that fairly easily too.  Longer serving Forumists are just not used to the idea yet !

[tonyg]

Came across an E-book version of the September AGS Bulletin on the AGS web-site.
link on the homepage
http://www.alpinegardensociety.net/
also in the 'News' area
I don't know if this is simply a response to postal difficulties or something that will be repeated each edition.  It does give an idea of how these things can be presented online.

[mark smyth]

The bulletin is here
http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/6d2a2963#/6d2a2963/1

[Maggi Young]

Yes, Tony, it can be downloaded as a pdf also, which I find easier than the "E-book" format ... though it may be that I just lack experience of that format and would get the hang of it after a while... I had the pages roaming all over the screen!  
I think it was initially a response to postal troubles  but it is being considered for the future in a member's area. Idea is to leave this one  on the site as a "sample" though, which seems a good idea.

[Joakim B]

I like reading the magazine but with time they get quite a few and since I hate to trowout magazines I would consider going for a "reduced rate" containing seed ex and access to the mag through login site.
Maybe this will make the club loose some members paying full but in time they will win many more paying reduced.
It will be easier to get people oversees to join since we do not miss anything (free entrance to events we can not visit) For those outside the UK that go to these events I am sure they will keep their full membership).
With a reduced fee it will be possible to join more societies. With reduced I would expect costs of seed ex plus a few ponds 1-2. A bargain version without the seed ex for 1-2£ to read the magazine? This may increase the numbers of members but lose some of the income?

Regarding a paid forum I prefare it to be free and maybe have more commercial info if needed? I would not join a forum that is free for a time and later costs money. I prefare to have the chose to join or not and also that it is no big pressure to join. They show the advantages with joining and that was enough for me. If pressured I would have left rather than joined.

Kind regards
Joakim

[Maggi Young]

More interesting points from Joakim.

We have thus far resisted the temptation to have much in the way of advertising. The limited amount we can have in the scrolling banner, top right of forum pages, is a small concession and we would not like to have adverts from a major fast food firm, for examble on the site. The adverts need to be truly relevant to the SRGC membership.... most obviously, specialist nurseries and the like.

Regarding the pressure to join to participate; I do hope that my efforts from time to time to bring this matter back into the spotlight for new readers is not seen as too hard core..... it is something that really does need to be addressed from time to time as new readers come online and may not know anything about the SRGC and the provision of this Forum, having found us directly through a web search.