Midland AGS Show at Knowle, Solihull

[David Nicholson]

Paddy, In some ways I agree with you, and in some ways I don't (that's a classic bit of fence sitting ) I think there are a number of different aspects to Shows. Firstly for the experts able to show their skills with difficult to cultivate plants and thereby for us novices to aspire to those skills. Equally there does seem to me to be a need for a venue where, allbeit with easier plants, the novice can practice his or her skills and allow those skills to develop. To-days novice, tomorrows expert!

Perhaps the second aspect of Shows, and arguably of equal importance, is the "Public Show". Clubs such as ours and the AGS would find it very difficult to continue solely on the basis of member's subscriptions. Shows do bring in the general public, and revenue, and it is important that they are able to see a wide range of plants, rather than sparse benches with plants they would rarely be able to see or obtain outside the Show Hall. I still like to think, when I have been to a Show, that " I have one at home better than that" or indeed one in the garden better than that. I still think there is room for a pot of well grown Daffs as there needs to be for a fiendishly difficult Androsace.

Rob, I don't think there is an etiquette about posting pictures, apart from conforming to size norms, and this Forum would not be as successful, or indeed pleasant to be a member of if there were. Most of us like to see a wide range of Show plants if only to compare them with our own stuff. Also it's of great benefit to those who, for reasons of geography, work requirements, lethargy or age are unable to get to many Shows.

Here endeth the Epistle!!

[Paddy Tobin]

Goodness Rob,

Don't be put off by my comments. I am delighted to see all the photographs and I'm sure the other people who use this forum are also. What a convenience it  is to be able to see photographs from the various shows around the country without leaving the comfort of home. Of course, the plants would be better 'in the flesh' but I, for one, am not able to travel to see them and am most grateful to have yourself and the others post the photographs here. It is a great way to see many many plants I would never otherwise see.

My comments are just my wondering how the  plants are judged. It baffles me first of all why people grow plants in pots when they would grow perfectly well in the garden and it also baffles me why such plants would receive awards at the shows when their growing was no particular achievement.

I don't begrudge the exhibitors the awards; it's just that I don't understand the standards which apply.

Please keep posting your photographs. I certainly enjoy looking at them all and many thanks for going to the effort.

Paddy

[Paddy Tobin]

David,

Your epistle has been read and has been met with general agreement. I understand that the novice needs to be encouraged and there is no doubt that I would fit into that category and without such encouragement no club or society would develop. Equally, your comment re raising funds makes perfect sense and is a necessity.

It is the judging and the bestowing of awards which mystifies me.

Rushing off now to do a bit of work elsewhere.

Many thanks for your reply.

Paddy

[Maggi Young]

Rob, you post away with whatever plants you like. If you find a plant attractive or interesting in any way, then the chances are that other folks do too, so that is a valuable contribution to the forum, thank you!
While we are only too pleased to have pages filled with the rare and difficult alpines, you will see that such pages are not too plentiful on this forum... by this I mean the "classic" "alpines" like Eritrichium nanum, the Ranunculus (with leaves like a tiny caulifower, whose name escapes me) or the  most difficult cushions, like Dionysias....while we get occasional pix, mostly from the shows, it seems that the folks who grow those to the wonderful standard of the shows are singularly backward in coming forward to display the plants and their skills and secrets, to a wider audience. That is the point, I suspect, there are many who , having found the "secret" are bound and determined to keep it a secret!
All the more reason to applaud and encourage those experts who do share their experiences freely on this forum, to the benefit of all others who care to read it.
I would second David's comments pretty wholeheartedly, but, since there is room on his fence, (even after most of it blew away in the winter gales, if you remember!) I will say that I understand Paddy's view, but I believe David hits most ofthe nails on the head as regards show and their place in the club.
To emphasis D's point about the need to bring on new exhibitors: it would be very discouraging for those folks if they had to leap into showing only with the rare and difficult... not only might they not have the expertise as yet to grow these plants, but, in most cases, how/where would they have obtained such gems? Also, it MUST be remembered, and this point is important to be remembered by judges, also, that in MOST classes, there are very few points available for rarity or difficulty in cultivation.Except in the special classes for those categories, the percentage of points that make up the total awarded are  vastly in favour of health, character and CONDITION of the plant. There are, of course, also classes for plants grown in/ lifted from the open ground... this is to even the playing field a bit for those without glass houses etc. and to allow for a natural effect in a plant.
Hope some of this is helpful reading to someone!

[David Nicholson]

I was chatting to an old chap at an Auricula Show last Saturday (forgot to take my camera-again!!) who told me that in his early growing days all of his Auriculas were grown in open ground and potted up for showing-" and they were better plants for it than some of the weak stemmed things you see on the benches today" he said.

[Maggi Young]

I can well believe that from the point of view of sturdy plants, David, but how did they keep the farina on the plants?

[Rob]

Hi Maggi

‘All the more reason to applaud and encourage those experts who do share their experiences freely on this forum, to the benefit of all others who care to read it.’

I agree with your comment.

Seeing Anthony Darby share his experience on Cypripediums has encouraged me to get some of my own.

Coming back to judging, would a plant grown from JJA seed get more points than one from the garden centre?

Regards,
Rob

[Maggi Young]

a plant grown from JJA seed get more points than one from the garden centre?

Well, Rob, subject to the criteria I listed above, no, it shouldn't... but Judges are only human and some suffer a little from plant snobbery, so the chances are that yes, it would! A good show secretary should be on the lookout for signs of bias  etc and, while  "the judges' decision is final"... that is supposing they are sticking to the rules, too!! I can hear sharp intakes of breath as some folks read my comments... I'll be getting "drummed out of the Brownies" for exposing secrets of the shows! Too bad, I believe in
open-ness and explanation... the "freedom of information", if you like!

[Susan Band]

Paddy,
I managed to enter 10 plants at Perth Show, they were all dug from the open garden and potted up between 1 and 7 days before the show. Admittedly they weren't as pristine condition as those grown in pots so I think I will be struggling when I have to move out of the novice classes. The rules do state that the judges should not discriminate between those plants grown in the open ground and those grown in pots, I don't know how they can tell though.
The problem is judging when to dig them . But a lot easier to grow them this way for most people.
Rhododendrons and conifers  I would be easier this way.

[Diane Clement]

I'll throw in my thoughts on this one.  As Maggi says, there are classes for easy plants and classes for difficult plants, and classes for combinations and groups of plants.  That makes it more fun as lots of different people can have a go and enter.  I don't think an easy pot of hybrid narcissus or similar would often win an show award.  Of course, it might win a class for hybrid narcissus, but it would probably not win a class for narcissus which included species narcissus, all other things being equal!  A mixed pot of Fritillaria meleagris lifted from the ground (where they doubtless looked superb) would not beat a pot grown single clone which had been painstakingly bulked up for years.  The big awards are voted for by all 12 judges so at least you should get a fair decision.       

I agree that shows are the shop window of the big societies and other specialist groups and they do show the public and non-showing members what is possible to grow and also what is impossible, although the general public do not know the difference and go round with their notebooks, carefully writing down Dionysia and Eritrichium ...

Pots versus open ground is a matter of choice and personal situation.  Some excellent showers do grow entirely in pots, but there's no way I could manage that.  So, I grow quite a lot of my show plants, including all my rhododendrons, in the garden.  I try to lift them a fortnight or so before the show to get the best results.  As Susan says, the timing is difficult and a lot of care is then needed while they are in pots to keep them looking good.  Many times I have looked at a plant in the garden which looks superb and so I lift it with the intention of showing it.  But when it's in a pot, many leaves and flowers have blemishes which are not obvious in the open ground but would be on a show bench.  It's not easy!       

[Joakim B]

I think there is a point in that it should not be possible to "buy" a trofy by "filling a pot with expensive bulbs" that might not be hard to grow just to come by.
A good looking pot of a spices narcisus of 20 bought for 10£ each should maybe not be granted a big trofy just by being exclusive (acording to a fair game). If I understand the rules that Maggi explained then they should not be treated better than the more comon things, but then again, they look good due to the good material bought. That is a tricky one.
For orchids they have rules that the orchid showed must have been grown for x month and that the flower must have come during Your care and hence You are supposed to be involved in the growing. For many bulbs it is the last years grower that should have the price rather than the one putting them in a pot and just "go with the flow".

Then again people might like to see somthing different so it is not easy. Many of the double hybrids of narcissus looks more "exclusive" then some of the spieces to a beginner (me) even if the fisrt can be bought in a good gardencenter and the second only at specialist nurseries.
I love seeing pretty flower and I myself would love to go to a show and see what they have.
There are very few plant shows in Sweden and even fewer participants in the show so maybe one should try to enter one?

Sorry for the too long talk but it is a tricky subject wit many different parameters
Joakim

[Paddy Tobin]

David, Maggi, Diane, Susan,

Many thanks for your replies, greatly appreciated and I am now far better informed than I was earlier today. I am not really familiar with the show rules and regulations and find an interpretation of the awards somewhat challenging when I see them.

Regarding the plants, I enjoy seeing a well grown plant whether is it an everyday one or a rarity, a readily available narcissus cultivar or a rare species nurtured over years. Of course, the rarer plants do have the attraction of novelty and attract great attention at a show as is only to be expected.

Also, I admire the lengths you all go to when preparing plants for display and thank you for it.

Keep showing and keep showing your photographs on the site. Both activities bring great enjoyment.

Paddy

[Paddy Tobin]

In line with Joakim's comment, last weekend I was in a local 'Homebase' store and saw the most fabulous pots of Iris winogradowii, with up to ten fully open blooms in each pot and this priced at €14. If there had been a show the following day I reckon I would have won some award or other. I imagine the occasional (sorry, very rarely) plant appears at a show which came from this type of cultivation.

Paddy

[Anthony Darby]

Homebase selling Iris winogradowii?! There should be a law against that!

[Paddy Tobin]

Anthony,

Hard to imagine it but that was the case.

Paddy