Narcissus September - December 2009

[Gerdk]

If you like it or not, I just can't resist to add some more pics of the striking hybrid Narcissus serotinus x N. tazetta. Because it is sterile the flowers last for an very long time.

Gerd

[Anthony Darby]

My goodness, it looks quite vigorous. Perhaps one to look out for, and that perhaps may flower for us "oop north"?

[Mini-daffs]

 
Hi
Kees
A few photos of how to get miniature pinks. First you need pollen from a small pink like Brooke Ager and then you need something like our micro mini.
Some variation is often seen in the species. Sometimes this includes natural splits (don't choke Lesley) and multiple petals. The photos show some N. rupicola with extra petals.
There are also desirable and not so desirable forms of the species.

[Mini-daffs]

 
Hi
Now something truly special for Lesley. This flower is really hard to classify. It is a failed triandus hybrid because it only has one floret. However, the question then arises is it a double or a split cup? It has two layers of cup. The outer one is quite extraordinary while the inner cup has a white margin. Not for exhibition but certainly something different!

[Anthony Darby]

My first Narcissus for the end of summer, Narcissus serotinus

I think this beautiful flower would have a better life in the Autumn narcissus section?

[BULBISSIME]

Wonderfull Gerd !!
Now, I think you have to try to cross N. serotinus with N. cyclamineus !!! 
Fantastic pics and flowers ! and so unusual....

[Gerdk]

Anthony and Fred,
Thanks for compliments!

Fred, I prefer crosses from mother nature although crosses between autumn and spring flowering daffodils might offer a range of interesting combinations.
Narcissus cyclamineus behaves pretty promiscuously but I'm not sure if it would like an arrangement with N. serotinus? 

Gerd

[vanozzi]

G'day Graham--some advice please on your breeding of miniatures.

In my miniature breeding programme, I have always put 2N pollen onto 4n standard blooms, 2N x 2N  and 2N pollen onto some of the ''Irish Div 6's'' that are just short of 24 chromosomes and get good seed set, a little less for the latter.I have not yet used N. viridiflorus, the 4n specie, but intend to.
Brooke Ager is bred from, I think, two 4N parents and so I presume is also 4N, though it has some 2N in its pedigree.It is listed by the ADS as an intermediate, height less than 32.5 cm and perianth 74cm wide.They don't note its chromosome count.

Now, do you usually put 4N pollen onto 2N blooms as well as the usual 2N pollen onto 4N blooms and is the former one reason you have made such great advances with the miniatures? What is the seed set like with the 4N pollen onto 2N blooms?
I know Rod Barwick used to say ''forget what the books say'', did his own thing and has had great results.

In lilium breeding, we always use the pollen parent with the higher chromosome count onto the pod parent with the lesser number.So we do achieve seed set, for example, by putting 4n pollen  onto 3N blooms.This is especially important in producing OT'S,but it's virtually useless to try 3N pollen onto 4n blooms, or 3N onto 2N.Embryo rescue has changed this to some degree.
It's easy to produce 3N daffodils that are very vigorous, but most are infertile, so as a breeder it's mostly a dead end.I don't belong to the RHS or ADS, so don't get their journals which would keep me up to date with the latest knowledge, but have been breeding standard and miniatures for quite some time,doing my own thing, along with carnations, dianthus and glads.The last 3 no longer.
Thanks
Here is one of my useless novelty seedlings, a green miniature double poet 25mm only.This is all that it does--it doesn't open.

[Mini-daffs]

 
Hi
Paul, most of our hybridising is done using fertile miniatures (2N). In terms of breeding colour into miniatures we cross our fertile miniatures with intermediate and small flowers with colour that are usually 4N. It is not the chromosomes that count but the unreduced gametes in the resulting triploid (and this is where it gets tricky and some luck is needed). This is also how Rod does it and that is why we can use his otherwise barren seedlings to produce seed. In terms of using a flower like Brooke Ager, you have more chance of a miniature if you use Brooke Ager pollen on a miniature but we have micro miniatures so we have pollen that we can put onto Brooke Ager. Brooke Ager is fairly tall so you need to be able to bring down the height as well and this is part of the art of the hybridiser. The other thing is that numbers count and we have a lot of seedlings.
We also have fertile Division 5 and 7 seedlings and that is particularly handy for breeding colour breaks etc. in those classes.

[Mini-daffs]

 
Some photos for Lesley!

[Mini-daffs]

 
Hi
A few more photos of our seedlings.

[Anthony Darby]

I see you get thrips ("thunder bugs" - Order Thysanoptera) in Oz too.

[johnw]

Graham - Love your KB 5W-W, KB 7W-W and KB 7Y-Y.  

Paul - Do keep us updated on the miniature green poeticus, maybe someday it will open.  

Great thread!

johnw

[Mini-daffs]

 
Hi
Lesley a few more photos for you!! Nature can be far from perfect. I can't say the three quarters bulbocodium is something to impress. The split cup NTT is one of natures aberrations but it could be used to produce split cup miniature triandus.
The miniature split cup measure about 40 mm.

[Mini-daffs]

 
Hi
Enough of the frivolity!! I have attached some photos of some of our best late flowering miniature hybrids. It includes a photo of a stunning miniature poeticus seedling of perfect exhibition form.