Narcissus species from seed

[Regelian]

I'm getting my Narcissus seed together to sow and wanted to hear from others what the find best for certain species.  I have had fine success with seed from garden hybrids, typically the germinate in the Autumn for me and then overwinter in a coldframe environment.  I've been using a coir-based potting mixture cut with about 20% perlite to assure good drainage and not wet compost, which I am not sure will be good enough for certain species.

Here is a list of species I am planting and I would appreciate any comments some of you may have on their culture

Narcissus assoanus
N. bujei
N. cantabricus
N. cyclamineus
N. miniatus (deficiens)
N. serotinus
N. viridiflora
N. dubius
N. pseudonarcissus varduliensis
N. pseudonarcissus major (confusus)
N. pseudonarcissus leonensis
N. pseudonarcissus eugeniae
N. pseudonarcissus moschatus (alpestris)
N. triandrus triandrus
N. trinadrus pallidiflorus
N. longispathus yepesii
N. nevadensis


Also, I am still looking for seed of other species to try, if any of you have some to spare.  I'm hoping for quite a bit of feedback, as I plan to note all of this down and build my own little book on raising them from seed.  There is plenty of literature about raising hybrids, but almost nothing on raising species and their particular preferences.

[Maggi Young]

Jamie, here are references from Ian's Bulb Log to narcissus seeds  seed sowing, germination etc.....
 
(how to find......the meaning of 6/06 is Log No. 6 from 2006)

seed 6/06
collecting 49/06
seed sown at depth 43/05
storing 49/06
germinating 49/06
seedling
split corona 50/06
root 2/04
with turned in corona 51/08
twin flowered 51/08 52/08
seedlings 46/05 31/07
ex 'Camoro' 47/06
seed pods 19/05 23/08
seed storage 23/08

[Susan Band]

Hi Jamie,
I have seed of N. cyclamineus, triandrus ,cantabricus and rupicola germinating now. I like to keep them frost free as the germinating seed is susceptible  to the frost which we will eventually get. It is forecast for this week. Once they are through the ground for about 3cm they seem hardier, it is just when the seed germinates you can loose them before you even notice. A heated cable if you have one doesn't do any harm.
Susan

[ashley]

Slugs are another hazard, easier to avoid under cold glass.

[tonyg]

I would second both Susan and Ashleys comments.  I have found other bulbous genera susceptible to frost at and soon after germination.  Slug damage may not be fatal, especially later in growing season but it will set back the development of the seedling bulbs .... meaning a longer wait for maturity.  Under glass I have to be careful to get the watering right, too little = early dormancy, too much can = rot.  Outside I let the rain in regularly which seems to be better than my sometimes erratic watering under glass.   ....So many pots, so little time

[Darren]

Absolutely agree about frost - I lost several potfuls of newly germinated narcissus seedlings in a frame last winter after the pots froze through. I wish I'd known before - or had thought to ask the forumists! This was our first 'hard' winter after moving from an almost frost-free garden so it had never happened to me before. Last week I carefully examined seed pots of N cyclamineus, eugenie, asturiensis, pseudonarcissus etc and found roots were emerging from the seed and immediately moved the pots into the greenhouse - I'm not getting caught again. Cantabricus has been up (and indoors) for a few weeks now.

[Regelian]

Maggie,

thanks for all the reference points.  I can spend this evening collecting infos from Ian!

 Susan, Ashley,Tony, Darren,

Now, frost is a real problem then.  I had planned on using the lean-to greenhouse for the seed over Winter, equipted with a thermometer that I can read from my computer 'throne'.  A heating cable might be a good idea.  I've not found them over here (certainly someone has them), but i am visiting my cousin for Christmas in Hampton, so I can pop off to Wisley or another garden centre to find one.  Do you think creating a sand plunge with the cable is a sound idea?  Or is the cable just as effective placed at the bottom of the lean-to?

Any special composts being used for specific species?

Slugs and snails did a number on my Lilium seedlings this Spring, so I figured that one out quick.  They are a real problem in my climate, but don't go after all seedlings. They rarely touch the Hemerocallis, but Hosta beware!

[Sinchets]

I have had seed germinate from autumn sowings of some species, which are then put undercover for the winter. The rest either germinate under the snow, to be 'discovered' in spring, or germinate soon after snow melt.
I think as you suggest, Jamie, it is a good idea to keep notes, as I cannot remember which came up when, but on the whole they did come up.
Talking about frost- our coldest daytime temp of this winter today at 0C, but Crocus cartwrightianus (SBL306 Crete) decided to germinate now from a 2008 sowing

[dominique]

Hi Jamie
I have sown all species outdoors in sand frame and some of them have already germinated. If cold weather with frost under minus 1°C, i put on them glass and if under minus 5°C, I add one or two covers (moquette!). When leaves appear, I put the pots in the cold glasshouse until february. After, all return in frame outdoors for the end of growing season.
Good chance
Dom

[Lars S]

Aha ! This could explain some of my poor germination result when it comes to narcissus since my seed pots gets thoroughly frozen during winter. I will have to change my methods it seems.

By the way, I can verify that fresh seeds of Meconopsis quintuplinervia germinate well. The only problem is that they have started right now and winter is approaching big time

[Susan Band]

Jamie if you are investing in a cable it really has to be covered in about 2cm of sand or as you suggest a sand bed. You can also get mats which just plug in complete with thermostat and can be covered with some capillary mat, good for watering too. I don't know what size of an operation or how cold you get but just a small fan heater to keep the frost off will probably do if they are in a lean-to.
Susan

[Sinchets]

What are your winters like, Jamie? In our area 50cm of snow helps to provide all the insulation we need.

[johnw]

Jamie - Just a note that heating cables are no longer available here.  I undestand they were a fire hazard.  I had one friend who lost a garage and another who found his propagation bed full of perlite and perlite smoking one morning.  We now have to resort to the heating pads - rubber mats set at 20c.

Can you tell us more about your thermometer that you can read from the computer? It would be very useful to have.

johnw - hovering at 0c today.

[David Nicholson]

Narcissus 'Nylon Group', N. romieuxii and two pots of N. cantabricus all sown on 10 September all showing good germination and moved today from an open frame to the greenhouse.

[Regelian]

Jamie - Just a note that heating cables are no longer available here.  I undestand they were a fire hazard.  I had one friend who lost a garage and another who found his propagation bed full of perlite and perlite smoking one morning.  We now have to resort to the heating pads - rubber mats set at 20c.

Can you tell us more about your thermometer that you can read from the computer? It would be very useful to have.

johnw - hovering at 0c today.

John,

I am not surprised to hear of problems with heating cables.  Especially those for 110/220 V systems.  I've always prefered the mats in any case, but see them very rarely offered.

As to the thermometer, what I was refering to is that my computer seat looks directly out at the lean-to.  Only about 1 meter away!  However, there are thermometers that can be read directly from the computer.  I have used them for my aquarium.  Various sensor probes are possible, all of which are connected to a program on the computer that keeps a record and can send an alarm.