Galanthus winter 2009/2010

[Martin Baxendale]

Please forgive the ignorance- but are these G.gracilis the same plants as G.graecus and G.elwesii minor?

Yes, graecus was the previous name for gracilis, and elwesii minor was another name applied to graecus at one time.

As I said earlier, I doubt we've heard the final word from taxonomists about the status of gracilis and elwesii. The boundaries between the two species seem to be growing more and more blurred as more wild material is seen. Aaron Davis says they can sometimes be found growing next to one another, and the distinctions (leaf width, leaf vernation, twisting etc) are increasingly seen to be quite variable and hard to hold up as defining characteristics - some gracilis have wide leaves, some elwesii have narrow leaves, many gracilis have twisted leaves, but some don;t while some elwesii have slightly twisted leaves, some gracilis have slightly convolute leaves, while some elwesii can have almost applanate leaves, some gracilis can be quite large, while some elwesii can be pretty small, and as for flared inner petals, well...

[Sinchets]

Thanks Martin. It was just that we have G.elwesii minor growing here too and Flora Bulgarica makes no distinction between the type plant and the subspecies.

[Martin Baxendale]

I forgot to mention that Zonneveld found gracilis and elwesii to have virtually identical amounts of DNA, showing a very close relationship, and of course they cross very easily with each other.

[Martin Baxendale]

Thanks Martin. It was just that we have G.elwesii minor growing here too and Flora Bulgarica makes no distinction between the type plant and the subspecies.

There's always been a lot of disagreement between taxonomists over the naming and the distinctiveness, with some not recognising gracilis as a separate species.

[Sinchets]

Yes, I was wondering if the minor differences may be a result of natural variability within a species. Here are 2 pics taken last spring from a population we found on the Black Sea Coast.

[johnw]

Please forgive the ignorance- but are these G.gracilis the same plants as G.graecus and G.elwesii minor?

Yes, graecus was the previous name for gracilis, and elwesii minor was another name applied to graecus at one time.

As I said earlier, I doubt we've heard the final word from taxonomists about the status of gracilis and elwesii. The boundaries between the two species seem to be growing more and more blurred as more wild material is seen. Aaron Davis says they can sometimes be found growing next to one another, and the distinctions (leaf width, leaf vernation, twisting etc) are increasingly seen to be quite variable and hard to hold up as defining characteristics - some gracilis have wide leaves, some elwesii have narrow leaves, many gracilis have twisted leaves, but some don;t while some elwesii have slightly twisted leaves, some gracilis have slightly convolute leaves, while some elwesii can have almost applanate leaves, some gracilis can be quite large, while some elwesii can be pretty small, and as for flared inner petals, well...

Variable vernation might just cause a few headaches for the taxonomists and our labels down the road.  Ready the whiteout!

johnw

[mark smyth]

plicatus Vera Trum
Is anyone growing Vera Trum? The flowers on my plants are open day and night. Has anyone seen this?

Mark

[Brian Ellis]

Yes Mark, give me about a fortnight and it may be in flower - you are so far ahead of the East of England!

[mark smyth]

Brian it's been above ground since the snow went away - the last snow. We have a few centimeters dumped on us overnight and a forecast of -5 tonight

[johnw]

The flowers on my plants are open day and night.

Is this a trait that has been recorded for the many cultivars and is it very common?  I have noticed all elwesii ex DA's friend and gracilis Yamanlar were still wide open at 1 am and it was cold too.  In Gloucestershire we were out roaming about at 5:30 am in February darkness and came across a small clump of G. nivalis they were still open at about 1c with a stiff wind blowing, no others over several acres were open.  

johnw

[mark smyth]

A few snowdrops in the snow
Ivy Cottage Corporal
plicatus Wendy's Gold
rizehensis

[mark smyth]

John just now I cant think of any that stay open

[Melvyn Jope]

Some green tips in flower today.

Ivy Cottage Greetips.
Selbourn Greentips
Margery Fish
A plant raised from a mixed selection of seed, the only green tip so far.
A chance find in a garden centre last year.

[Gerard Oud]

I do miss a picture of Vera Trum

[mark smyth]

flower or leaves?