Trillium germination

[t00lie]

There has been a bit of discussion recently on Trillium L about skotomorphic growth in Trilliums so i today i just had to look at some of my numerous Trillium seed pots.

I found commencement of radicle emergence at various stages in a number of pots sown Feb 09 of chlors and angustipetalums.

I normally do not check my T.pots this early so I was surprised to see activity this far on --i wonder if our warm period in Nov/early Dec followed a cool wet last few weeks has aided matters--- (it is mid summer here).  

Pic attached shows a couple of seeds with a radicle each--the third seed shows a swelling where the root will push out.

(I've tried posting on Trillium L but it keeps on getting rejected ...).

Cheers dave.

[Susan Band]

Hi Dave,
Strangely enough my Trillium seeds are at exactly the same stage even although we are on the opposite sides of the world. I wash my seeds in peroxide first, keep them in the fridge until beginning of december then bring them into the house (they are in bags of perlite) I  think that some seed will germinate on a certain day no matter what you do. I believe day length also plays a big part. It does so with some vegetables. I presume these were your own seed not bought from the north hemisphere?
Susan
PS Look forward to meeting you in the Autumn.

[Susan Band]

I forgot to say for anyone reading in this cold weather, seed at this stage is susceptible to frost. So check your pots and bring them indoors if necessary.
Susan

[Stephen Vella]

Hi Dave and Susan,

I too read the T list post.

Dave looks like your chro and angustipetalum are on track. These western sp are also known to germinate in 1 year if the conditions are spot on and fresh. Sown in the early summer and up in autumn and hang around in a frost free area of a shade house. If you look at your seed again in late winter there will be chlorophyll and leaves beneath the ground ready sitting and waiting for the right tempretures (above freezing), I even think they do count the days, some coming up early..yes Trilliums are good at math or are they

Susan why do you store your Trillium seed in the fridge and sow them in bags of perlite in January when they should be dormant for you? Do you get better results and do ok when transfered onto soil and having them adjust to the new climate outdoors?

I find that most Trillium seed do require the warm/cold/warm/cold/ warm period to finally emerge in a shade house open to the elements. Trillium seed in these conditions can withstand what ever cold is thrown at them..frost and snow. Its easier for me and less playing around with them.

[Susan Band]

Hi Stephen,
I maybe didn't explain well enough. Once washing in Peroxide I sow my seeds into damp perlite in ziplock bags and then store them in the fridge until the beginning of Dec. , they are then brought into the house where after 6 weeks they begin to germinate, they smaller ones earlier. At this stage(what I am doing at the moment) I sow them thickly into trays and keep them warm, either on heated cables or in the house, where ever I have space. At the end of March(or when the last frosts have been) most will have put up there 1st green leaf, then I prick them out into large polystyrene boxes and keep in a shady place. They then grow on during the summer. Occasionally some of the bigger ones (T. Albidum) even put up second single leaves.
The smaller ones (T. rivale, hibbersonii) sown in July have already made (January) green leaves above they compost.
I haven't read the T. list so don't know what they are saying. I have used this method for a few years now.
Attached is a picture of one with extra leaves 14months (end September) after sowing.
Susan

[TheOnionMan]

I take the lazy man's approach; sowing seed in situ. I started doing this a few years ago, as a workaround to my ridiculous work schedule where I'm away from the house 6:30 AM - 8:00 PM each day due to a demanding job and 3-hour roundtrip daily commute, where things in pots languish (and often die) from neglect.  It's all moot now after getting laid off from my job of 20+ years, but that's another story.

Sowing seed in place works better than I ever imagined.  In late summer/fall I scratch the seed into a decomposed pink bark mulch in small areas selected as their final growing spot, label the spots with multiple labels to demark the seedling perimeter area.  In spring I look for germination.  Here's a photo of Trillium decipiens seedlings coming up after such a sowing.  And for reference, a photo showing a couple color forms blooming; it's a choice species from southeastern USA.

[Rodger Whitlock]

I wash my seeds in peroxide first

Care to tell us why? I'm aware that washing in peroxide is a useful way to remove seed-borne fungal diseases, but do you have evidence that trilliums are affected by such?

[Stephen Vella]

Hi Susan yes I have heard of this method. I guess your trying to get them up earlier (winter) and they get a head start....and you can see what is germinating in these plastic zip lock bags.

Like Mark the lazy mans approach works for me as does sowing directly into pots straight away as they get a natural warm start and a natural winter etc. From memory it was explained that fluctuating cold and warm tempretures does make a big differance in what germinates.

Sounds like your doing well with you approach.

Trillium decipiens is a beaty Mark I have some in thier 3rd year..so slow. I guess yours grow fast when directly sowing in the ground. I wish I had more space

[Susan Band]

Hi Rodger,
As you are best to wash all the sticky stuff off the Trillium seed anyway it is not a great deal to soak them as well. It prevents the seed from getting any fungus while they are waiting to germinate. Any non viable seed just shrivels up and doesn't pass fungus on. I haven't done any experiments on this as it works for me and isn't much bother. I usually add a bit peroxide to any  seed that need soaking.
Susan

[Susan Band]

Stephen.
It takes  up a lot less space especially in the house. I find that Trillium plants aren't really dormant at this time of the year, they are already trying to poke their noses towards the surface (in normal winters) and a lot of other bulb seedlings are germinating at this time.
I am starting to sow a lot of other seed in the bags as you can see whats going on and it saves a lot of pots sitting about while the seed decides to germinate (mice,frost, drought etc). It just means you have to check the bags every few days. I don't find they are set back by moving into pots when they germinate. Last week I moved some lilium seed and now they have sorted themselves out and are poking through the surface.
Susan

[TheOnionMan]

Like Mark the lazy mans approach works for me as does sowing directly into pots straight away as they get a natural warm start and a natural winter etc. From memory it was explained that fluctuating cold and warm tempretures does make a big differance in what germinates.  Sounds like your doing well with you approach.

Trillium decipiens is a beaty Mark I have some in thier 3rd year..so slow. I guess yours grow fast when directly sowing in the ground. I wish I had more space

I don't believe they grow any faster because of sowing in the ground, it's just that there is no handling thus little work to be done after sowing, they more or less take care of themselves, although I do try and keep up with weeding while seedlings are small.  I had a few juvenile T. nivale seedlings bloom this year, from seed that I scratched in around the parent plant, took 5 years to flower... not bad. 

I upload two similar shots of Trillium nivale taken early this spring.  There are three mature stems, then 3 juvenile 5-year old blooming size plants, and you can see some younger seedlings around.  The day after I snapped this shot on March 27, 2009, deer came into the yard and ate the three larger stems to stubs, leaving behind the seedlings. I think the main plants will be okay, just no seed in 2009.

Also uploaded is a photo of a few 2-year in situ seedlings of Trilllium discolor... maybe 3 years more before I see a bloom.

[Rodger Whitlock]

I had a few juvenile T. nivale seedlings bloom this year, from seed that I scratched in around the parent plant, took 5 years to flower... not bad. 

What's the pH of your soil, Mark? I have a belief, founded on reasons I no longer remember, that T. nivale prefers a slightly limey soil.

[TheOnionMan]

I had a few juvenile T. nivale seedlings bloom this year, from seed that I scratched in around the parent plant, took 5 years to flower... not bad. 

What's the pH of your soil, Mark? I have a belief, founded on reasons I no longer remember, that T. nivale prefers a slightly limey soil.

Not sure of the exact pH of my soil here, although I know it is definitely leaning towards the acidic side as most of the area is here, where red oaks, white pines, and understory of low-bush blueberries are plentiful.  Trillium nivale seems to be doing well enough regardless, albeit growing very slowly.  I have this trillium and a dozen other species growing under a large Magnolia 'Forrest Pink'.

[t00lie]

Hi Dave,
PS Look forward to meeting you in the Autumn.

Vice versa Susan.

I've never tried the baggie method or washing in Peroxide that does so well for you --Hilda with reluctance has accepted my use of part of the fridge for a little seed storage ---i'd be pushing it i think, to try for the super heater cupboard as well   .

I have never seen an ant on this property so i sow all Trillium seed as is --aril still attached --sometimes when in a hurry i just squeeze the berry contents a bit to aid the splitting process and sow the whole sticky mess--germination occurs --however i'm unsure how many i lose through fungal attack.

I sow in pots and poly ,(ex fish ),containers because of limited space and the heavy amount of seed that drops from the native trees / shrubs that surround our property.

Last year i set up an open ended shade house and moved all my T. seed pots as well as a 100 odd mature potted plants .This should reduce the amount of weeding i will have to do once i get round the containers that require urgent action.

See attached pics

 Quote "deer came into the yard and ate the three larger stems to stubs"

Mark,(Mc),We have deer here ,(introduced),in forested areas-- .As we are allowed to shoot them on sight they shy away from human activity so are not a problem for gardeners.

Cheers dave.  


  
 

[Lesley Cox]

I no longer look at Trillium-L as I find it dreadfully boring reading countless posts about this or that trillium coming up on this or the other side of the road in any of half a dozen SE American states. Once maybe but not year after year. This though, as a preamble to saying that on Trillium-L over several years many or most references to T. nivale contained the comment that it likes lime. My small plant is in a very acidic compost but it has grown exceptionally slowly (3 flowers last spring, the most in the 12 years I've had it). I plan to move it to a limestone crevice bed, when I get it built.