Tulipa 2010

[Lvandelft]

This is Tulipa vvedenskyi with red pollen


and this is Tulipa albertii with yellow pollen which maybe the only difference as some authorities include them as one species (we had much discussion last year!) but this one also increases much more.

cheers
fermi

Fermi I was asked by my friend Sjaak de Groot to put the following comment on these pages:


In reaction on the photo,s of tulips from Fermi 22 oct. The so called T. albertii from  your photo,s is a form of T. vvedenskyi (already mentioned  by Janis) that grows wild in the Chatcal and Kurama mts. in Uzbekistan and Tadjikistan, these mountain ridges are the most southern ridges of the Tien-Shan, so T. vvedenskyi is a real mountain tulip growing on a level of about 2000 meters.

T. albertii grows much further to the north , I saw them growing in the central Kara-Tau ,near  lake Capchagay  and on the Northern side on Lake Balkash, all in Kazakhstan and always under semi desert conditions. These 3 populations are all different  in form and flower colour
And also the habitat is different.
But they have always strong incurved inner petals.
I have never seen T. albertii in the Tien-Shan .
As I am not a member of the SRGC ,I ask my friend Luit if he will add this reaction.
Enclosed some photos of both species from the wild habitat.
Greetings
Sjaak de Groot

T. albertii central Karatau 2                           
T. albertii N of lake Balkash 1                   
T. vvedenskyi Kurama mts. Tadjikistan 1                 
T. vvedenskyi Kurama mts. Tadjikistan 2                 
T. albertii Capchagay 1                                   
T. albertii Capchagay 2                                 
T. albertii N of lake Balkash 2                         
T. albertii central Kara-Tau 1   

[Maggi Young]

Luit, will you pass our kind thanks to Sjaak de Groot for his advice and these photographs, please?
It is so useful to get input from other travellers, and is much appreciated. Thank you, Sjaak.

[Armin]

Luit,
thank you for the marvelous pictures and notes from your friend Sjaak de Groot. Best wishes to him.

May I call my 'T. albertii of commerce' now correctly as a form of T. vvedenskyi, too?

[fermi de Sousa]

Hi Armin and Luit,
thanks for your comments about "my T. albertii"and especial thanks to Sjaak for his pictures and comments. As Maggi said, it's wonderful to have informed comment and pics from the wild.
I was informed by my supplier that it was bought from Dix and Hoog at great expense (10x the cost of others!) many years ago as Tulipa albertii, so it has entered "commerce" in Australia that way. 
It would be good to eventually get the true T. albertii and I looked very sadly at those empty seed-pods in Sjaak's last pic - but then thought maybe they got the seed first!
cheers
fermi

[Ragged Robin]

Fermi, your tulips are wonderful in your rockery and seem to love their habitat 

'Breathtaking' is the only way to describe the wonderful shots Sjaak has posted showing T.albertii and T vvedenskyi in the wild like specimens.

[Luc Gilgemyn]

Wonderful images from the wild Luit and Sjaak !!
Thanks so much for posting these !  Marvelous !

[Armin]

Hi Armin and Luit,
thanks for your comments about "my T. albertii"and especial thanks to Sjaak for his pictures and comments. As Maggi said, it's wonderful to have informed comment and pics from the wild.
I was informed by my supplier that it was bought from Dix and Hoog at great expense (10x the cost of others!) many years ago as Tulipa albertii, so it has entered "commerce" in Australia that way. 
It would be good to eventually get the true T. albertii and I looked very sadly at those empty seed-pods in Sjaak's last pic - but then thought maybe they got the seed first!
cheers
fermi

Fermi,
my clone it is still on the trade here under name of T. albertii, too
But thanks to all the experts feedback in this forum around the globe I never stop learning and it is inspiring me daily!

[Lesley Cox]

Hpw womderful to find those specks of brilliant red and yellow in what would otherwise seem a barren and so harsh landscape.

[Boyed]

Armin,

It is quite hard to imagine that true tulipa albertii can be offered in commerce, as this species usually don't increase vegetatively.

Your tulip doesn’t look as tulipa vvedenskyi as well. Tulipa vvedenskyi is dwarf and have different shape of leaves and flowers.

Your tulip reminds me the unknown tulip, which is commonly sold in commerce as tulipa sprengeri. I grow this false sprengeri, but I don't have a good picture to show. So I show a clone selected by Russian botanist Z.M. Silina from this false sprengeri, called 'Czerementz'.

[Arda Takan]

Hello everybody, it is me and my questions again

I wonder if it is possible for an amateur like me to have tulip hybrids? And I also wonder if any of you has his/her own hybrids?

Thank you

[Armin]

Zhirair,
thank you for your kind support to identify my wrong T. albertii.
I can see a resemblance of 'Czerementz' but my clone lacks the black basal blotch.

[Boyed]

Zhirair,
thank you for your kind support to identify my wrong T. albertii.
I can see a resemblance of 'Czerementz' but my clone lacks the black basal blotch.

Armin,
I forgot to mention, that one of the features of this false tulipa sprengeri, is its late blooming. It flowers with late-blooming tulips. So if your unknown tulip blooms late, most probably it is tulipa sprengeri (false type). The difference in base colour is not very serious, as even among one species specimens can have differences in base colour.

Another tulipa sprengeri variety, called 'Darunok Irini' (translaton: 'Irina's Present') bred in Ukraine by A.S. Koltsova (Nikita Botanic garden)

[Boyed]

Hello everybody, it is me and my questions again

I wonder if it is possible for an amateur like to have tulip hybrids? And I also wonder if any of you has his/her own hybrids?

Thank you

Of course, it is possible and not difficult to have your own hybrid, but you need to have a patience. You just cross two varieties, collect seeds and sow. In around 5 to 8 years the seedlings will bloom and you'll have your own hybrids. But if you want your hybrids to be accpted as varieties, they should surpass the existing varieties in something.

[Lvandelft]

Reply  from Sjaak about T. albertii
Where Zhirair says T. vvedenskyi is a dwarf tulip I can’t agree, in nature and in cultivation it is more medium size, the pictures in Janis book Buried Treasures shows this medium size too.
But in comparison with the long cottage tulips I think almost  all wild tulips look dwarf.

The comparison of the false T. albertii with the even false T. sprengerii is understandable, in the first sight they have some similarities, but genetic resource by Dr. B. Zonneveld  shows clearly that the false T. albertii belongs to T. vvedenskyi and the false T. sprengerii belongs to the gesneriana tulips , and well very close to T. hungarica.

Fermy the seedpods of T. albertii are from the year before ,al the seeds were already blown by the wind when we arrived. Lots of bulbs where eaten by a sort of  kangaroo mouse with the name greater gerboa
Next year I will try to pollinate some T. alberti's for seed.

Sjaak de Groot

[Boyed]

Luit, Sjaak,

Thanks a lot for taking time to clarify this matter.

Relating the word "dwarf", you're probably right. Most of my Single Late tulips get over 1 m in my garden. So saying dwarf I ment up to 30-35 cm. By medium height I mainly understand 50-55 cm.

Very interesting to know that this false tulipa sprengerii belongs to gesneriana group. Now I see that even flower shape looks somewhat similar to gesneriana cultivars. Janis Ruksans were also puzzled by this tulip origin. As it is stated in his catalogue, the tulip that he received many years ago as tulipa sprengerii, were recognized by his customers as not true to name and  he still couldn't find out what tulip he grows.