Pleione Spring 2010..... to July!

[Alex]

Afraid I don't know the origin of my clone, sorry. But thanks for the habitat photo, beautiful.

Cheers,

Alex

[ThomasB]

I too can't tell where my plants came from originally.

Maybe we'll see more Pleione hookeriana in flower will find intermediate forms and maybe even ones with a certain origin.

[Pascal B]

Alex, on that Rhododendron the flowers were rather bleak with several all whites (except for the spots in the lip of course) but it was a great sight to see all of them popping out of the moss.

[Slug Killer]

Alex

Most Pleione hookeriana coming out of China are usually Pleione chunii and often mis labelled. I suspect your P. hookeriana is from West Bengal as that's where the main UK importer gets them from and the sending company collects hookeriana, humilis, maculata and praecox not far from where they are based in India.

David

[Pascal B]

David,

I don't think the one from Alex comes from India. I am familiar with the forms of hookeriana from West Bengal but they are not much different from the ones on my picture from Helambu in C Nepal. To my knowledge P. maculata does not grow in West Bengal but further to the East towards Thailand. P. humilis is very rare in W Bengal and has been the subject of a large scale re-introduction schedule by the same nursery that exports to the UK. If you talk about the companies I think you are talking about I can assure you that none are collected from the wild. Pleione are one of the few genera closely guarded in West Bengal.

[johnw]

Great God what a huge Rhododendron arboreum! 

johnw

[Slug Killer]

Pascal

As I am on speaking terms with the company manager in West Bengal, I'll send him an e-mail to ask what part of India the plants originate from but he has already told me in the past that P. humilis is wild collected under licence and therefore they still need CITES and PHYTO to export.

David

[Pascal B]

Great God what a huge Rhododendron arboreum! 

johnw

John, in the more remote areas with smaller communities there is less need for fire wood. Particularly in the more touristic areas and better known trekking routes much of the Rhodo's have been cut down for firewood but in these places they can grow to maturity and can become very impressive. Fortunately the trend seems to be to bring kerosin burners on trekkings and more and more you can find "solar showers" heated by solar panels near lodges so there is less demand for firewood.

[johnw]

Pascal

It is sad the destruction of these magnificent arboreums and the like.  I often wonder if the solar cookers would work in these cloudy regions.

johnw

[Pascal B]

John,

Most treks are in April-May or October-November which usually means clear skies and at least part of the day sun, these panels don't need much sun hours to warm the water up. And the pre-monsoon rainshowers in May usually don't reach the higher valleys and only last for a couple of hours. Only during the true monsoon the clouds would prevent the water not warming up but the solar showers are primarily for tourists so only needed during trekking season, I have been there only once during full monsoon and it is rather hazardous and slippery. Plants are great but a nightmare for taking pictures or keep standing on 2 feet....

Pascal

[Maggi Young]

Pascal

 P. humilis is wild collected under licence and therefore they still need CITES and PHYTO to export.

David

Do not orchids need phyto and CITES certificates to move anywhere, anytime, regardless of origin ?   

[Slug Killer]

Pascal

 P. humilis is wild collected under licence and therefore they still need CITES and PHYTO to export.

David

Do not orchids need phyto and CITES certificates to move anywhere, anytime, regardless of origin ?   

I meant as opposed to been wild collected without a licence by someone who does not offer CITES and just smuggles plants, just did not word it very well.

From outside the EU, yes you need CITES for all orchids unless flasked but no you don't need certificates to move anywhere within the EU anytime.

David

[Pascal B]

Maggi,

Correct, even re-locating plants in the same country is dealt with under Cites. But unfortunately theory and practice are not always the same in Asia. The term "nursery grown" in Cites often is translated to "taken from the wild, grown on in the nursery for 2 months" and voila: nursery grown. Plenty of threads in orchid fora on that subject. Cites documents also are sometimes fake.
But Cites is not the only proces regulating international traffic of plants. The Convention of Bio(-logical) Diversity is another instrument to control this and in my point of view a more effective method because it is not based on paper lists. All orchids are Cites but I can sum up plenty of orchids that don't need it and plenty of other families/genera that should be on that list. The Cites list is not always based on facts (see the recent story with the blue tuna that didn't make it on the list because of political reasons).

In order to collect in a country that recognises the CBD you have to have written permission from that country to collect within their boundaries, including seeds. China for instance recognises the CBD so any seed collected on a holiday there without a permit and taken to Europe strictly speaking is illegal. Plant protection starts in the country of origin and often fails already there. Different culture, different norms and values. But maybe this is not the thread to discuss that subject...

Irrespective of the above, it could very well be the plants David is talking about are 100% legal, I can't say.

Pascal

[Alex]

Interesting - from what I understand, I think the form I showed is certainly P.hookeriana rather than P.chunii, but I'm not sure that helps very much with origin. FWIW, I can tell you it was bought from the Burnham orchids stand at the RHS London orchid show this year along with a nice form of P. grandiflora and a very big bulb of P. maculata - all nice.

Cheers,

Alex

[Slug Killer]

Hi Alex

Yes yours is definitely P. hookeriana and a very nice one as well. I should have some coming in to flower this week, will be interested to see if there is any difference.

Hope not as I like yours.

David