Germinating now?

[Gail]

I have six pots of autumn flowering Narcissus germinating on a windowsill now.  All sown on 21.1.10 I put them outside to start with but it was so cold that after a couple of weeks I took pity on them and brought them in.
N. cavanillesii, first up 27.2.10
N. miniatus (La Linea, Spain), first up 28.2.10
N. miniatus (Cadiz), first up 27.2.10
N. miniatus (Cadiz), this pot was kept indoors the whole time and benefited from the extra warmth, first up 11.2.10
N. serotinus, first up 1.3.10
N. viridiflorus, first up 26.2.10

Sown in a mixture of John Innes No 1 and Levington seed/cutting compost with added grit.  The John Innes from my local garden centre tends to set like cement after a bit so I usually add some random ingredients to try and lighten it.  The grit top dressing is hen flint grit from my local corn merchant, bought for my chickens but I use more than they do.

[Tony Willis]

Podophyllum seedlings of the dysosma section which have germinated over the last four weeks.

They were sown Sept/Oct straight from the berry as it ripened after cleaning in a gritty JI mixture. They have been kept frost free. A pot which has been frozen in the greenhouse is only just starting to germinate and will be another month before they appear above ground.

[Lori S.]

Lori, is that Salvia verbenacea from seed I sent you? I have had some difficulties with it...mayby it looses viability soon? When did you sow it?
Looking at you pictures, I guess you use vermiculite and perlite in your sowing mix?
Hans

Yes, Hans, those are the seeds you sent me back in late August - thanks!  They were sown on Feb. 20/10, and germination started Feb. 24/10.  Strong germination - I had a whole little potfull, from which I've potted on about 6.  Yes, as I mentioned, I add vermiculite, perlite and sand to "soil-less potting mix".

If it has been difficult to start for you, it may be, rather than losing viability very quickly, that it actually has germination inhibitors that break down with time, so that germination improves with a period of dry storage?  I don't know - just one of the many possibilities, as documented by Dr. Norm Deno, god of seed germination study.  (If I recall correctly, this particular species was not one he studied) 

[Lori S.]

More, if anyone is interested...
All at room temp, no conditioning unless otherwise indicated.

Acantholimon kotschyi ssp. laxispicatum - germ in 4 days             Pavelka; Turkey, Kop Dag, 1600m, 2008 seed.
Acantholimon saxifragiforme - germ in 10 days                             Pavelka; Turkey, Urgup, 1600m.
Achillea aleppica ssp zederbaueri - germ in 3 days                        Pavelka; Turkey, Karaman, 1600m, 2008 seed.
Achillea falcata - germ in 12 days                                                 Pavelka; 1600m, Dedegol Dag, Turkey, 2008 seed.
Alyssum lepidoto-stellatum - germ in 12 days                               Pavelka; 1700m, E of Sivas, Turkey, 2006 seeds.
Arabis androsacea - germ in 6 days                                               Holubec; ex. Turkey: Ala Dag, 2200m 2009 seed.
Arnebia densiflora - germ in 11 days                                             Pavelka; 2500m, Bolkar Dag, Turkey
Arenaria Arnebia kansuensis - germ in 3 days      NB.  One of these two "arnebia" seems to be mislabelled!    Pavelka bonus seed - apparent typo on the seed packet, as Arenaria kansuensis is offered in the seed list.
Bolanthus cherierioides - germ in 10 days                                     Pavelka; 2100m, Sultan Dag, Turkey
Christollea flabellata - germ in 8 days                        Holubec; Tajikistan: Yazgulem Range, Pamir, 3800m; 2006 seed.

[Lori S.]

Again, all at room temp, no conditioning unless indicated:

Codonopsis bhutanica - germ in 9 days         NARGS
Codonopsis grey-wilsonii - germ in 6 days     SRGC, NARGS
Convolvulus holosericeus - germ in 8 days after scarification   Pavelka; 1500m, Bozkir, Turkey; 2008 seed.
Cyananthus microphyllus - germ in 20 days      SRGC
Delosperma alpinum - germ in 7 days            NARGS
Dianthus pinifolius ssp. serbicus - germ in 4 days   NARGS
Dracocephalum foetidum - germ in 3 days         Pavelka; 1700m, Changai Mts., Mongolia; monocarpic, 2003 seed.
Eremostachys speciosa - germ in 8 days     Holubec; Kazakhstan: Foothills of Zailiski Ala Tau, 1400m, 2009 seed.
Inula acaulis ssp. caulescens - germ in 6 days    Pavelka; 2000m, Sipikor Dag, Turkey; 2006 seed.
Krascheninnikovia lanata - germ in 3 days         wild-collected

[james willis]

Gail,
Could you please tell me where you obtained your seed of viridiflorus?  I kept my bulbs of this narcissus for six years and flowered it twice but last year the bulbs just vanished and I would like to get it again.
Jim Willis

[TheOnionMan]

Lori, you're getting strong germination for so many exciting items, you will be busy making room for all these. Since you germinate all of these indoors at room temperature, do you run fans continuously to prevent mold?  How do you prevent etiolation until it is warm enough to plant outside?

[Lori S.]

Hi, Mark.
I've never used fans and don't get mold growth.  The air... both indoors and out here... has very low humidity, and is not really conducive to mold growth (at least I assume that is the reason)... moss algae, yes, but I just remove it from the surface of the soil in the pots if it bothers me.  (Actually, I mostly just leave it, if the truth be known.)
Re. etoliation... Each shelf on my seed-starting stand (Thanks, Stuart - he built it!  ) has two 4 foot fluorescent light canopies, each with 2 lights - completely standard hardware store stuff.  Each shelf holds 4 commercial plastic plant trays; each tray holds 48 of the 2 1/4" black plastic alpine pots that seem to be commonly used around here.  The light canopies are suspended on chains so that they can be lowered to sit right atop the seedlings initially, then raised as the plants grow.  It seems to provide enough light to get seedlings through the 13 weeks or so that I'm usually growing them inside, before I can chuck them outside after most of the frost risk has passed.  
We did have a 1000-watt halide light system once in our basement for overwintering tropical water lilies and other tropicals - a hugely better quality of light (incredibly intense - looking at it causes retinal damage), but not pleasant things to have around.  I'm happy with fluorescent light...  

Yes, I'm very pleased with germination rates on my Pavelka and Holubec orders!  I received the Pavelka order first, so have more results there so far, as compared to the Holubec seeds planted later.  Also, the ones I'm showing are obviously ones that are easy germinators - I expect to bomb out with more of those that have more complex germination requirements (as usual), but I'm already more than satisfied!

[cohan]

lots of great stuff lori!
i havent started on warm sow stuff yet--just no room indoors with some tender south africans etc under lights; i'm still working on some cold stratification stuff--very late, so i'm hoping for a cold spring...lol--i have them behind the house where the snow departs very slowly...
the warm stuff is mostly going to have to wait til it can go outside, so they will have to deal with the short season...

eager to hear how you do with the Christollea--its one i was looking at, but didn't get yet this year, though i have some other high asians to try--in an odd bonus/substitution situation, i ended up with 6 saussureas when i had originally only ordered one!! i can't find much on germination for the asian saussureas, so i'm hoping a few will come up!

Krascheninnikovia lanata is exciting too--if you are able to get seed again, i will ask you to try for some extra for me--i was only able to get down there during flowering season, no seeds; i tried a small cutting, but i think my cutting rooting skills need some real honing, no results....

i will add that i also do not get mold, even for those plants kept in baggies--though on a few (not everything) i have noticed something--algae? green and slimy start on the grit--didnt seem to be affecting the plants, but don't know if it would have--i just opened the baggies and that was that.... i also have them under regular fluorescents and no problem--in fact my bulbs should  be replaced, and its still ok--no doubt they would make weak adults if kept there (for full sun plants), but no prob on seedlings--in fact i have cyclamen purpurascens and townsendia started in the fall, and they have been fine all winter under the lights, the townsendia a real surprise...

[Lesley Cox]

Tony which species is the Podophyllum in the larger pot, on the left please?

[Lori S.]

eager to hear how you do with the Christollea--its one i was looking at, but didn't get yet this year, though i have some other high asians to try--in an odd bonus/substitution situation, i ended up with 6 saussureas when i had originally only ordered one!! i can't find much on germination for the asian saussureas, so i'm hoping a few will come up!

Krascheninnikovia lanata is exciting too--if you are able to get seed again, i will ask you to try for some extra for me--i was only able to get down there during flowering season, no seeds; i tried a small cutting, but i think my cutting rooting skills need some real honing, no results....

Cohan,
I've grown 4 species of Asian Saussurea from seed (last year and now) - those species, at least, were easy, warm germinators, no conditioning required, so I'd just try that first assume the same behavior, as a first guess, with yours.
I'll check if I still have seed of winterfat (I snatched one bit of a seedhead last summer), and I'll send it if so.  

[Gail]

Gail,
Could you please tell me where you obtained your seed of viridiflorus?  I kept my bulbs of this narcissus for six years and flowered it twice but last year the bulbs just vanished and I would like to get it again.
Jim Willis

Hi Jim,
The seed came from Derrick Donnison-Morgan of Simply Species (Semillas Españoles).  See http://www.simplyspecies.co.uk/index.html  The website doesn't always work properly for me but there is an email link at the bottom of the page.

Gail

[johnw]

Tony which species is the Podophyllum in the larger pot, on the left please?

Lesley  - I was trying to figure that out as well after Tony PM'ed me the shot.  I'd say pleianthum or versipelle.

Here is a shot of a few of my toothed pleianthum seedlings, excuse the lighting as they're under sodium lights.

Also shoots are poking up on pleianthum x delavayi from Philip MacDougall, they are sooooo glossy.

Tony may be in Greece at the moment.

johnw

[cohan]

eager to hear how you do with the Christollea--its one i was looking at, but didn't get yet this year, though i have some other high asians to try--in an odd bonus/substitution situation, i ended up with 6 saussureas when i had originally only ordered one!! i can't find much on germination for the asian saussureas, so i'm hoping a few will come up!

Krascheninnikovia lanata is exciting too--if you are able to get seed again, i will ask you to try for some extra for me--i was only able to get down there during flowering season, no seeds; i tried a small cutting, but i think my cutting rooting skills need some real honing, no results....

Cohan,
I've grown 4 species of Asian Saussurea from seed (last year and now) - those species, at least, were easy, warm germinators, no conditioning required, so I'd just try that first with yours.
I'll check if I still have seed of winterfat (I snatched one bit of a seedhead last summer), and I'll send it if so. 

thanks, lori, i'll try that with at least a few of each..some i may just pot and stick outside now anyway since i don't have much room indoors; if they want warm they'll just wait...
have you tried soroseris or waldheimia? haven't been able to find anything on them either; i tend to expect asteraceae to be warm germinators, but i guess there are exceptions...
have you overwintered any of the asian saussureas outside yet?

[Lori S.]

have you tried soroseris or waldheimia? haven't been able to find anything on them either; i tend to expect asteraceae to be warm germinators, but i guess there are exceptions...
have you overwintered any of the asian saussureas outside yet?

I'm also trying Soroseris umbrella this year, and have some germination after 10 days.
I planted out several Saussurea nelapensis last year; waiting to see how they do this year.  If they're deciduous err, herbaceous, I suppose they might be OK... if not, they're dead.