Primula: East vs West

[ChrisB]

Hi,  I've got two primulas that might open enough to exhibit next week at the Northumberland Show.  However, there are two categories, Asiatic Primula and European Primula (there is also a category for just primula, but I have a plant for that category aleady).  So, does anyone know whether P. 'Barbara Midwinter' and P. 'David Valentine' are from the east or the west.  The Richards book suggests their parents of P. 'Barbara Midwinter' (P. megaseifolia x P. julae back cross) come from SE Black Sea/Turkish Georgian border and Caucasus/Georgia/Dagestan/Azerbaijan respectively.  So I'm a bit confused....
P. 'David Valentine' meanwhile, is thought to be a cross from P. juliae and P. eliator, so I'm inclined to consider this one to be more European than Asian.

Would be interested in views from people who know what's in the minds of judges....

[Rodger Whitlock]

Both of your primulas are native to Georgia, usually considered to be in Europe, and their nearest relatives (botanically speaking) are European. I'd stage them in the European section. Against this position one can marshal the fact that the crest of the Caucasus is often taken as the line between Europe and Asia, hence neither Georgia nor its native primulas would be considered European. IOW, there are good arguments for both sides of the question.

Things really get exciting when you stage a pot of Primula vulgaris sibthorpii grown from Turkish seed, since the Bosphorus is almost universally considered the dividing line between Europe and Asia.

Suggest to your show convener that in the future it would be more useful to organize the classes botanically, rather than geographically.

[ChrisB]

Thanks Roger.  I shall be seeking further advice on the day, but it certainly is a puzzle....

[Martinr]

Chris, if you look in the back of the AGS Show Handbook you will find the AGS definition of the boundary between Eurpoe & Asia but.................Hexham is under SRGC rules this year. Playing by the AGS book definition should be OK though. P vulgaris ssp sibthorpii is a good case. I've actually put it in both continents and not had my knuckles rapped!

Consult John Richards or Robert Rolfe on Saturday morning would be my final suggestion

[ChrisB]

Thanks Martin.  All depends on them opening, been cold here today though.  I think they may *just* be in bloom by Saturday.

[Lesley Cox]

And who knows what's in the minds of the judges anyway?

[ChrisB]

True, Lesley, but I reckon there's a better chance if I'm careful where I enter my plants.  Still not in bloom today, so this may all have been academic.  I'm a newbie at this stuff, and last year I noticed a disqualification note by the judges at one plant that had been put in the wrong place, so I'm mindful of that.

[Maggi Young]

Show secretaries should be checking all entries put on the bench to see if they are eligible for their class before judging starts; if a plant is found to be in the wrong place during judging, an effort would be made to replace it correctly wherever possible.
That's the Scots system but even then it can fall down, but every effort is made to sort such hiccups out.

I would incline to the thought that your primulasare on the cusp, Christine, though by the AGS/RHS "line" between Europe and Asia on a map, they are certainly in Asia. Judges at Hexham will still be predominately AGS based, I expect!
Mind you, that line has Rhodes and Cyprus in Asia too, which seems pretty daft!

There are judges who opine that man-made hybrids, as these are, are not eligible for "geographical " classes, anyway, so that's another problem.

It's something I will bring  up at a future Scottish Show Secretaries' meeting.

[ChrisB]

Wow, Maggi, I hadn't thought of that at all.  *If* it blooms by Saturday, *and* I take it, I will be asking about where I can exhibit it for sure.  Mind you, it doesn't say species only on the show schedule.  I'm still very nervous about exhibiting plants, as you can tell.

[Maggi Young]

Chris, the rules about "geographical " classes have been stated in the past, for both clubs, as I recall, to be for species or natural hybrids form that area. Both the primulas you mention are listed by some nursery lists (Edrom for expmple) as being "of garden origin"... thus I would expect that there might well be a resistance to allowing them in a geographical class, the point of which is to showcase plants from that region.  Email Peter Maquire..... lay the question at his door! 

[ChrisB]

Will do, Maggi.  Thanks.  When you put it like that, it does make sense, just hadn't thought about it enough.