Allium 2010

[olegKon]

Mark, thanks for the detailed advice

[Maggi Young]

I  read of this link on the pbs listing , thought it would be of interest here.....
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/09/dining/09curious.html?hpw

....a book on all sorts of oniony things... scientific and culinary....

[TheOnionMan]

I  read of this link on the pbs listing , thought it would be of interest here.....
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/09/dining/09curious.html?hpw

....a book on all sorts of oniony things... scientific and culinary....

This is the book I posted about previously here, with a plea from the author (Dr. Eric Block) for information or possible sources for "strong smelling" allium species for his further work on chemical analysis.  This is the same book that I'm supposed to be doing a review of, then posting said review here and at the Pacific Bulb Society; I fear that I have fallen behind.

[PeterT]

could do with a book that sorts the genus out, I have one that is patchy in what it covers by Dillis Davis  and B mathews book on allium section allium. Been a few more flowering here, These are under cover, though i suspect I get them too dry they are all increasing, any cultivation tips apreciated though. Allium baisunense, Allium cleavlandii from America, allium crenulatum, and allium peninsulare

[PeterT]

Allium litwinowii growing outside in a pot (I find it rots if it gets a wet automne), allium nevskianum growing outside and looking pretty awfull but it survived the wettest summer on record here and the coldest winter for 40 years, without cover and is increasing, more than Allium "Red Globe" mannaged in the same bed! A new aqusition Allium victoralis which I am told is the origional anti vampire garlic from eastern europe and will probably be best in a wild garden, and Allium fimbratum purdyi, kept in the green house

[TheOnionMan]

could do with a book that sorts the genus out, I have one that is patchy in what it covers by Dillis Davis  and B mathews book on allium section allium. Been a few more flowering here, These are under cover, though i suspect I get them too dry they are all increasing, any cultivation tips apreciated though. Allium baisunense, Allium cleavlandii from America, allium crenulatum, and allium peninsulare

Peter, your A. baissunense (note spelling) is awesome, looks like a silver fireworks.  Allium litvinovii is certainly one of the finest deep blue alliums, although still hard to come by, although available from Janis Ruksans.  I grew it outdoors for a couple years, flowered beautifully the first year after planting, but it perished the following winter, not sure what the problem was... perhaps in a site not as free draining as necessary.

There is no such thing as Allium "cleavlandii", nor A. clevelandii, but there is a yellow-flowered member of the Alliaceae named Bloomeria clevelandii (synonym = Muilla clevelandii, an older name under which it can still be sometimes referenced).  Bloomeria clevelandii is San Diego golden star, only found in southern most California, a pretty yellow-flowered bulb.  Your plant looks like a deeper color form of A. peninsulare.

Bloomeria clevelandii (syn. Muilla clevelandii), in Flora of North America (San Diego goldenstar):
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=242101430
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloomeria_clevelandii

Some sites still use the old genus name of Muilla (an anagram of Allium), Muilla clevelandii:
http://www.calflora.org/cgi-bin/species_query.cgi?where-taxon=Muilla+clevelandii

[PeterT]

Thanks Mark, I like them all and grow as many as I can, with limited knowledge and facilities.
 I put the pictures here to get this kind of information.
The plant I recieved as A clevlandii came from some very well informed people so I think there must be more to it, an unpublished name or synonym? I bought it in 2006 as "A clevelandii  Heads of striking deep purple-tipped, acutely pointed flowers in May" I shall refer back to them.
 It is hard to track down the different Bloomeria, Tritelias and such, though I have a few now. I may try north west native seeds,..
A litwinowii came from Janis six or seven years ago as a large bulb which divided and has never again had a bulb nearly so big, It likes being outside and dosn't grow so well dry under cover but if it is dank in autumme it dissapears, the seed has been in no hurry to germinate, I can send you some if you would like?

[PeterT]

I have just looked at A 'clevelandii' and A peninsulare, also A bisceptrum from Janis, The flowers on the clevelandii are the same shape as bisceptrum as are the anthers, clevelandii is the larger of the two. peninsulare is not the same shape

[TheOnionMan]

Thanks Mark, I like them all and grow as many as I can, with limited knowledge and facilities.
 I put the pictures here to get this kind of information.
The plant I recieved as A clevlandii came from some very well informed people so I think there must be more to it, an unpublished name or synonym? I bought it in 2006 as "A clevelandii  Heads of striking deep purple-tipped, acutely pointed flowers in May" I shall refer back to them.
 It is hard to track down the different Bloomeria, Tritelias and such, though I have a few now. I may try north west native seeds,..

Regarding "A. clevelandii" as a possible unpublished name or synonym, there is no Allium epithet nor synonym of "clevelandii", but in early taxonomic days, other alliaceous plants, including the recently established Themidaceae (Brodiaea, Triteleia, etc) were sometimes included under Allium.  The genera Muilla and Bloomeria have been described for well over 100 years, but even in my 4-volume "Illustrated Flora of the Pacific States" by Leroy Abrams, 1923, Bloomeria clevelandii has always been just B. clevelandii, although an allied species (also yellow) B. crocea, does have a synonym of Allium crocea Torr. 1859.  Most of the very old taxonomy and synonomy from mid 1800s is rarely repeated anymore as it is too early and obsolete, otherwise nearly every plant listed would have a long litany of synonyms.

Two places to check (even older synonyms will show up here), is:
http://www.ipni.org/ipni/plantnamesearchpage.do
There is no epithet "clevelandii" associated with the genus Allium there.

The other resource is "Nomenclator Alliorum - Allium names and synonyms - a world guide" compiled in 1998 by 5 of the world's authorities on the genus; Mary Gregory, Reinhard Fritsch, Nikolai Friesen, Furkat Khassanov, and Dale McNeal.  Of course new species have been published since 1998 (mostly Europe and Asia), but the list is extensive, and there is no "clevelandii" associated with Allium.

So, unfortunately I fear that "some very well informed people" are a trifle off on their details.  Regarding what your plant might actually be, it can be tough to narrow a determination... for each species in western N. America, there are several species that look fairly similar, with final determinations sometimes only possible by examining bulb coat reticulations, and other minute details.  Knowing the plant's provenence is also very helpful.  Allium bisceptrum typically has a stiff open starry shape to the tepals, looking similar to the closely related A. campanulatum.  Your plant does not look like A. bisceptrum to me, but there are other species with recurved tips to the tepals.

Lastly, the first thing I do with researching American Allium species, is google the latin name with the word USDA appended, as the USDA plant profile pages are an excellent starting point for recent/current taxonomy.  There are links at the bottom of each USDA profile page, the best being CalPhotos to show images of the plants. *Warning* - occasionally one or two misidentified images creeps into the collection of CalPhotos; usually this is obvious... for example, one CalPhoto of Allium bisceptrum shows a plant with very dimorphic recurved tepals which is clearly not A. bisceptrum, all the other photos (including white-flowered ones) do show A. bisceptrum.

Peter, I will send a PM regarding Allium litvinovii 

[Graham Catlow]

Some of mine flowering today.

Allium atropurpureum
Allium cyathophorum farreri
Allium unknown. Probably nothing special but a name would be appreciated if anyone has any ideas.

Graham

[TheOnionMan]

Some of mine flowering today.

Allium atropurpureum
Allium cyathophorum farreri
Allium unknown. Probably nothing special but a name would be appreciated if anyone has any ideas.

Graham

Graham, you saved me the trouble of posting a pic of A. atropurpureum, one of the more aptly named species, truly dramatic flower color.  Mine always sprouts out with robust clusters of leaves, but then most plants go dormant without flowering, and I only get one (this year) or two (last year) flowering stems.  How about with your plants?

Everyone on the forum should take a look at A. cyathophorum var. farreri, then remember its appearance, then see if any of your other alliums under different names look just like it.  This species, perhaps more than any other, is sent out under dozens of names; the ubiquetous imposter.  It's a decent enough species, but you will be disappointed when your Allium narcissiflorum turns out to be this species.

Your last one looks like Allium unifolium to me, a species from California and Oregon, almost as widely grown as the Mediterranean A. roseum. 

My Allium garden has been exploding with bloom with all of our sun, heat, and early season... I'll be working through the backlog to show some more onions.

[Graham Catlow]

Hi Mark,

The A. atropurpureum is a new one to me and all 20 or so have flowered. I will have to wait until next year to see how well they do.
I am waiting for A. narcissiflorum to flower so hope it doesn't turn out to be another A. cyathophorum var. farreri.
I had worked out that the final one was probably A. unifolium but thought I would get confirmation.

Many thanks

Graham

[Stephenb]

It seems ages ago that Mark posted a picture of his zebdanense in full flower. Just to show how far we are behind  I thought I'd take a new picture one of my plants, which has just come into flower, and has somehow naturalised in a wild part of the garden (no idea how it got there). It just manages to poke its head above the ground elder (Aegopodium) leaves.... We're about 3 weeks behind normal flowering dates here, it's poured with rain for 24 hours now, 20+-year floods in the main rivers and currently a only 5C in the middle of the day and we're almost at mid-summer.... The second picture taken today shows the fjord with a front demarking the muddy fresh river water from the tidal salt water.

[TheOnionMan]

It seems ages ago that Mark posted a picture of his zebdanense in full flower. Just to show how far we are behind  I thought I'd take a new picture one of my plants, which has just come into flower, and has somehow naturalised in a wild part of the garden (no idea how it got there). It just manages to poke its head above the ground elder (Aegopodium) leaves.... We're about 3 weeks behind normal flowering dates here, it's poured with rain for 24 hours now, 20+-year floods in the main rivers and currently a only 5C in the middle of the day and we're almost at mid-summer.... The second picture taken today shows the fjord with a front demarking the muddy fresh river water from the tidal salt water.

Stephen, we're about 3 weeks ahead this year... so I guess our climates cancel each other out, and we reach the Average   Seriously though, I treat certain plants as "garden clocks" or "nature clocks", their flowering always marking a certain time of year.  Example, when I see any of the large "hardy hibiscus" a la H. moscheutos types open its first flowers, I can be certain that it is around August 1st here.  I used to say the same about Stewartia pseudocamellia, when the flowers opened, it was July 1st.  Then, the last few years the flowers started opening the 3rd week of June, then the 2nd week of June last year.  This year the flowers started on June 5th.

The photo of the fjord looks most scenic and inviting.

Glad the season is finally catching up with you.  Ours is so advanced, that I'm terribly backlogged on documenting Alliums... must get caught up.  But it's hard to, when each day is warm (hot) and sunny yet again; today it is about 92 F, 33 C, drawing me out to the garden.

[TheOnionMan]

Just a quickie today, this sunny hot days beckons me to be outdoors, and when I go outside from my basement door, the first thing I see is the extra fine form of Allium caeruleum "DBG Form" (Denver Botanic garden) that I received bubs of a few years back.  The flowers are sweet scented, and I caught a photo with a wasp (around these parts called "yellow jackets") feeding on the nectar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_jacket).