Allium 2010

[Janis Ruksans]

.... seems much closer to A. huber-morathii..... 

Mark, I've never heard of Allium huber-morathii - sounds like a good plant which I must have in my garden 
Do you have a photo?

In attachment Allium huber-morathii pictures. Plant identified by Arnis Seisums, name not checked by me.
Janis

[Stephenb]

Fascinating stuff, Mark and Janis!

Mark: Your latest down under avatar drew my thoughts to southern hemisphere Alliums - I think I read somewhere that there's only one species endemic to the south, in South Africa - is that correct?

Thomas: A quick search on the IPNI data base http://www.ipni.org/ipni/plantnamesearchpage.do shows that there are some 20 species with the huber-morathii epithet and one huberii. You should start a collection - it would be a real challenge I think. Let me know if you get hold of Sideritis huber-morathii, on my wants list...

Wouldn't it be an idea if all Southern Hemisphere members had upside down avatars(or vice-versa), then we would see at a glance which season said member was in?

[Thomas Huber]

Thanks for the photos, Janis. Surely a must-have for me.

And thanks Stephen for your research - didn't know that my namesake was so active.

[TheOnionMan]

Mark: Your latest down under avatar drew my thoughts to southern hemisphere Alliums - I think I read somewhere that there's only one species endemic to the south, in South Africa - is that correct?

Yes, sort of... A. dregeanum.  In "A Revision of Genus Allium L. (Liliaceae) in Africa" by Brigitta De Wilde-Duyfjes, 1976, (237 pages), it is thoroughly described and illustrated.  However, their remains doubt whether the species is of true South African origin, or represents a very early introduction that became naturalized.  It closely resembles A. ampeloprasum from Europe and North Africa, the author stating the "differences with A. ampeloprasum are small".  It also closely resembles the European A. rotundum and scorodoprasum, in fact other authors have at times placed the South African plants under each of those species. After a lot of discussion and conjecture, the author states that "I have decided to accept A. dregeanum as a separate species".  Brian Mathew in "A Review of Allium section Allium" 1996, raises the same issue, but seems to favor the indigenous route as he casts doubt on the early introduction theory.

Thomas: A quick search on the IPNI data base http://www.ipni.org/ipni/plantnamesearchpage.do shows that there are some 20 species with the huber-morathii epithet and one huberii. You should start a collection - it would be a real challenge I think. Let me know if you get hold of Sideritis huber-morathii, on my wants list...

If you use a wildcard character in the IPNI name search, using huber* in the species name search, you also get the following:

huberi       150 citations
huberana      3 citations
huberiana    22 citations
huberioides   4 citations

Thomas, you are going to by one super busy guy amassing your Huberetum

[Janis Ruksans]

Mark: Your latest down under avatar drew my thoughts to southern hemisphere Alliums - I think I read somewhere that there's only one species endemic to the south, in South Africa - is that correct?

Yes, sort of... A. dregeanum.  In "A Revision of Genus Allium L. (Liliaceae) in Africa" by Brigitta De Wilde-Duyfjes, 1976, (237 pages), it is thoroughly described and illustrated.  However, their remains doubt whether the species is of true South African origin, or represents a very early introduction that became naturalized.  It closely resembles A. ampeloprasum from Europe and North Africa, the author stating the "differences with A. ampeloprasum are small".  It also closely resembles the European A. rotundum and scorodoprasum, in fact other authors have at times placed the South African plants under each of those species. After a lot of discussion and conjecture, the author states that "I have decided to accept A. dregeanum as a separate species".  Brian Mathew in "A Review of Allium section Allium" 1996, raises the same issue, but seems to favor the indigenous route as he casts doubt on the early introduction theory.

A. dregeanum is less hardy here. I lost it once in winter, but just now got replacement bulb. Will see how it will pass this winter.
Janis

[Stephenb]

If you use a wildcard character in the IPNI name search, using huber* in the species name search, you also get the following:

huberi       150 citations
huberana      3 citations
huberiana    22 citations
huberioides   4 citations

Thomas, you are going to by one super busy guy amassing your Huberetum

That's not all - search with two wild cards *huber* and the following huberiferous genera appear:

Apiaceae Schubertia Blume -- Bijdr. Fl. Ned. Ind. 15: 884. 1826 [Jul-Dec 1826] (IK)
Asclepiadaceae Schubertia Mart. -- Nov. Gen. Sp. Pl. (Martius) i. 55. t. 33 (1824). (IK)
Asteraceae Hinterhubera Sch.Bip. -- Flora 24(1, Intelligenzbl.): 42 (1841); 25: 419 (
Asteraceae Huberopappus Pruski -- Novon 2: 19. 1992 (GCI)
Asteraceae Hubertia Bory -- Voy. i. 334. t. 14 (1804). (IK)
Bombacaceae Huberodendron Ducke -- Arq. Inst. Biol. Veg. 2(1): 59. 1935 [Sep 1935] (GCI)
Caesalpiniaceae Jacqueshuberia Ducke -- Arch. Jard. Bot. Rio de Janeiro 3: 118. 1922 (GCI)
Incertae_sedis Schuberta St.-Lag. -- Ann. Soc. Bot. Lyon viii. (1881) 171. (IK)
Lauraceae Huberodaphne Ducke -- Arch. Jard. Bot. Rio de Janeiro iv. 191 (1925). (IK)
Lecythidaceae Neohuberia Ledoux -- in Lecointea No. 1, 3 (1963); cf. Gray Herb. Card Cat. (IK)
Melastomataceae Huberia DC. -- Prodr. (DC.) 3: 167. 1828 [mid Mar 1828] (IK)
Taxodiaceae Schubertia Mirb. -- in Nouv. Bull. Soc. Philom. iii. (1812) 123. (IK)

[Thomas Huber]

Definitely too many Huber's for my garden - time to find Crocus huberii 

[LucS]

In the photo below is a plant that I received as Allium aff. bucharicum RRW00129 from S of Marand, W-Azerbayjan Iran. Recently I heard that A. bucharicum is not the correct name.
Could somebody post a photo of a confirmed A. bucharicum ?
Any suggestions as to its correct name ? A. materculae ?
Update: the plant below is positively identified as A. materculae ssp materculae var albiflorum

[Janis Ruksans]

In the photo below is a plant that I received as Allium aff. bucharicum RRW00129 from S of Marand, W-Azerbayjan Iran. Recently I heard that A. bucharicum is not the correct name.
Could somebody post a photo of a confirmed A. bucharicum ?
Any suggestions as to its correct name ? A. materculae ?

Don't think that it is bucharicum. A. bucharicum comes from very S of Tadjikistan and adjecent Afganistan. It is very difficult and as I know was grown for a pair of years before lost only by Arnis Seisums. As bucharicum often is offered A.protensum (named as bucharicum in some Russian Floras, question cleared by Wendelbo in Flora Iranica), growing wild in Uzbekistan (not very difficult, very nice).
Janis

[TheOnionMan]

In the photo below is a plant that I received as Allium aff. bucharicum RRW00129 from S of Marand, W-Azerbayjan Iran. Recently I heard that A. bucharicum is not the correct name.
Could somebody post a photo of a confirmed A. bucharicum ?
Any suggestions as to its correct name ? A. materculae ?

Luc, a beautiful and fascinating Allium, a study in green and white, the close-up photo particularly intriguing.  I agree with Janis this cannot be A. bucharicum, a species with much more open flower heads similar to A. schubertii.  Janis mentions A. protensum, a species often erroneously sent out under the name "bucharicum".  I once flowered A. protensum, and it is another one along the lines of schubertii with enormous open heads of bloom up to 30 cm across (mine was only about 18 cm across), the tan-brown flower color distinctive indeed, looking like an Allium already in seed rather than flowering, almost invisible when in flower!  It died after its big flowering hurrah.

You suggested A. materculae, probably a much closer fit, as the species is described as having a fasciculate flower head similar to your plant, the flower head eventually becoming hemispherical.  Dr. Reinhard Fritch has published a recent description of the species and a new subspecies (ssp. graveolens) in Iran. 
NEW TAXA AND OTHER CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE TAXONOMY OF ALLIUM L. (ALLIACEAE) IN IRAN by FRITSCH and ABBASI
http://www.sid.ir/en/VEWSSID/J_pdf/80220080201.pdf

In Dr. Fritsch's treatment of A. materculae ssp. materculae, he describes the flowers as having narrow linear tepals, the color of the tepals dominated by a relatively broad green to brown median vein, and stamen filament color white to purplish.  Your plant seems a close match.

But since there are so many new Iranian Allium species, including 8 new species Dr. Fritsch has just sent for publication, it might be best if I send your photos to him for his first-hand opinion.

[LucS]

Mark,
Thank you for the link to this most interesting text.
Once more you see that we are in need of an up-to-date monograph of the species allium.
And thanks for consulting Dr. Fritsch !

[TheOnionMan]

To finish up on my discussion on confusing Allium species from the MacPhail and Watson expedition to Turkey, here are two photos taken by Janis Ruksans showing the true Allium tchihatschewii, certainly a cute little allium.  Janis allowed me to post his photos, as he is busy preparing for a trip to Turkey tomorrow, let's hope he finds all sorts of wonderful bulbs to show us on this forum.  For those who might be interested, Allium tchihatschewii is available in Janis' 2010 bulb catalog, along with 76 other alliums! 

I also include two links to herbarium specimens of Allium tchihatschewii, as further confirmation of the species identity.

Allium tchihatschewii - herbarium specimens
http://vanherbaryum.yyu.edu.tr/flora/famgenustur/li/al/tc/images/Allium%20tchihatschewii%20BOISS_%20%20%20%20_jpg.jpg
http://vanherbaryum.yyu.edu.tr/flora/famgenustur/li/al/tc/images/Alliumtchih.jpg

[Oron Peri]

Allium hieruchuntinum is in full bloom at the moment, the photo was taken today in the Jordan Vally, north to the city of Jericho.

[TheOnionMan]

Allium hieruchuntinum is in full bloom at the moment, the photo was taken today in the Jordan Vally, north to the city of Jericho.

Thanks for posting this Oron, it is a species that I have always been interested in and tried growing once (unsuccessfully), one of the relatively few (~20 species) blue-flowered species in a genus of near 1000 species.  How tall is the plant, it looks to be about 30 cm?  Did you find just the one plant, or do they occur in bigger populations?  How much variability do you see?  In photos I've looked at, there seems to be considerable variability, sometimes with very dense heads and a much higher bud-count than your plant pictured.

Regardless, it is very satisfying to see such a clear close-up photo of this legendary species.  I did see your earlier posting of Allium orientale... interesting to see just how consistant this species seems to be, without much variation. An interesting species nonetheless.

Regards,

Mark McDonough

[Oron Peri]

Mark

A. hieruchuntinum is restricted to relatively small area, usually in small groups, few dosens to few hundreds in each location, but quite distant from each other.
Mature plants in flower are 10-40 cm high, measures of the inflorescence is much variable, from 1cm to about 3cm in diameter, some with more compact appearance others less.
Despite its diminutive measures it is a stunner.