Allium 2010

[olegKon]

Some allium flowering now
1. Allium pseudoflavum
2. Allium carinatum pulhellum in the evening sun
3. Allium flavum
4. Allium sikkimense
5. Allium angulosum
6. I received this as Allium splendens var. kurilense, but it looks much like Mark's Allium sernuum (deep pink). Mark, what do you think of it?

[TheOnionMan]

Some allium flowering now
1. Allium pseudoflavum
2. Allium carinatum pulhellum in the evening sun
3. Allium flavum
4. Allium sikkimense
5. Allium angulosum
6. I received this as Allium splendens var. kurilense, but it looks much like Mark's Allium sernuum (deep pink). Mark, what do you think of it?

Oleg, nice profile photos on each!  The A. pseudoflavum is lovely, if you get any seed on that one, I would certainly love to try it. 

Regarding the last one, there is no published Allium name of "kurilense" nor does there exist a combination A. splendens var. "kurilense", anything by such an invalid name is something else.  There are in fact, two published subspecies names of Allium splendens, ssp. insulare (its current status is in doubt) and ssp. prokhanovii, which I believe has been elevated to species level as A. prokhanovii.

In cultivation, this thing called "Allium splendens var. kurilense" is everywhere, even though it is a bogus made-up fictitious name, and invariably plants that get sent out under this name are Allium cernuum, or more likely, Allium thunbergii or Allium virgunculae.  The tip-off should be as well, that Allium splendens is a small bulbous species, with very narrow upright leaves and stems, and tight little drumstick knobs of light lilac flowers, not terribly exciting.  All the things that sent out as "kurilense", either as seed or plants, look nothing like Allium splendens.

As a consolation, you have ended up with a rather good form of Allium cernuum.

[arisaema]

re;Allium sp. SBQE 1179

Question re:  Allium sp. SBQE 1179


Has this one been identified?

Re: Allium sp. SBQE 1179



Please post a photo and some details about the plant.

Mark McDonough
Massachusetts, near the New Hampshire border, USDA Zone 5
antennaria@charter.net

Some bad pics:

[TheOnionMan]

Re: Allium sp. SBQE 1179



Arisaema, I have not looked extensively at the Flora of China yet, but I was wondering, can you either take a cut-away closeup photo which shows the inner and outer filaments... many species determinations depend on whether the inner or outer filaments are toothed or not.  In lieu of that, if you could make a simplistic diagram such as the sample one I show, then scan it and post here, that would work too.  An initial guess is that it is Allium polyrhizum, but I need this additional bit of information to help narrow in on possibilities.

[arisaema]

Re: Allium sp. SBQE 1179



Thanks! These pictures are terrible, but as far as I can see it's the inner filaments that are toothed (like in the illustration). I can take measurements of the flower or pictures of the tunic and bulb if you need them?

[TheOnionMan]

Re: Allium sp. SBQE 1179

Thanks! These pictures are terrible, but as far as I can see it's the inner filaments that are toothed (like in the illustration). I can take measurements of the flower or pictures of the tunic and bulb if you need them?

Thanks, those photos helped.  The line drawing is taken from the tepal and filament shape of A. polyrhizum, so having toothed filaments is telling.  I don't want you to disturb the plant in a any way, but if you do unpot it sometime to plant it out, please let us know what the bulbs are like... there is a drawing of A. polyrhizum showing the strongly reticulate bulb coats.

There are two species very close to each other, both from Qinghai, that seem to match your plant, but indeed tepal dimensions are important to tell the two apart.  Can your measure the tepal length and width of your plant (both inner and outer tepals).  The two species are Allium polyrhizum and A. subangulatum.  There might be other possibilities too.  Here are links to both botanical descriptions, and the tepal dimensions of each.

Allium subangulatum
tepals 6-8.5 mm long × 2.5-3 mm wide
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=240001062

Allium polyrhizum
tepals 3-5 mm long × 1.5-2.5 mm wide
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200027519

[olegKon]

Mark, insects are at work so i believe I'll have some seeds. Send me an e-mail with the address and you are guaranteed the seed.
Thanks for clarification about Allium splendens. Anyway this Allium cernuum is the tallest and darkest in my garden

[arisaema]

Re: Allium sp. SBQE 1179



Thanks again! Tepals are 5.5 x 2mm, so they weren't much help... Inner and outer tepals are more or less identical, there's very little overlapping at the base. I'll get a picture of the tunic once the rain stops, seem to remember it being pale beige.

[arisaema]

Re: Allium sp. SBQE 1179


...and the tunic is indeed reticulate

[TheOnionMan]

Re: Allium sp. SBQE 1179


Arisaema, based on tepal size, on the smaller side like A. polyrhizum as compared to A. subangulatum, I'd probably go with A. polyrhizum as the ID.  HOWEVER, while it seems a good fit, I offer the disclaimer that doing this type of over-the-web plant ID'ing, and not necessarily going through the keys from absolute start to finish, without all of the characteristics at hand, there's a possibility it is something else.  That said, I have a fairly high level of confidence it closely matches the description of Allium polyrhizum, and it is a species found in the same area as the SBQE location in China.

Thanks also for cooperating with the request for more details, the bulb coats are just as I would have expected.  In this ID case, both polyrhizum and subangulatum have similar bulb coats, the benefit of seeing this characteristic is to further cement the identification to the right possibility of allied species.

Keep that one growing and hopefully donate seed to seed exchanges one day.

[arisaema]

Re: Allium sp. SBQE 1179

I can add a "cf." to the label if you prefer, but as far as I can tell it matches the description in the FoC perfectly 

If you have time for another one I have some better pictures of Magnar's Caucasus-species. It's measurements are as follows:

Tepal: 11mm x 2mm
Inner filaments: 6mm (+ anthers 1mm)
Outer filaments: 4mm (+ anthers 1mm)
Ovary: 3mm x 1.5mm, with what looks like three locules
Style: 1mm
Pedicel (at anthesis): 10mm

[WimB]

I have an ID question too.

Last year I received three bulbs, two as Allium cyaneum and one as Allium sikkimense. One of them looks quite different and the other two are quite similar. The problem is that one of the A. cyaneum looks like the sikkimense and I'm not sure which is which. See (not so clear) pics below.

[TheOnionMan]

I have an ID question too.

Last year I received three bulbs, two as Allium cyaneum and one as Allium sikkimense. One of them looks quite different and the other two are quite similar. The problem is that one of the A. cyaneum looks like the sikkimense and I'm not sure which is which. See (not so clear) pics below.

Wim, all three are Allium sikkimense.  The species is represented in Hort by a number of forms.  Key difference in telling sikkimense from cyaneum: stamens not exserted in sikkimense, long exserted in cyaneum.

[WimB]

Thanks Marc,

You're really an onion-God   

[TheOnionMan]

If you have time for another one I have some better pictures of Magnar's Caucasus-species.

Arisaema, excellent set of diagnostic photos!  Isn't this the same Allium that we've seen on this forum before, a large flowering patch of lovely light pink - dark pink striped flowers?  I believe it is.  Wasn't able to pinpoint an ID on it before, but the detail photos sure help.  The difficulty here is that the Caucasus cover a number of regions and several countries, and thus different floras, some of which are not generally accessible, if even they exist.  There is some possible species coverage with adjacent countries and their floras (Flora of Turkey, Flora of Iran, Flora of the USSR), but I know for example a number of new species are described in such places as Armenia, and who knows about tghe taxonomic state of affairs in Georgia and Azerbaijan.  I'll see what I can come up with; although may forward this to Dr. Reinhard Fritsch and Kurt Vickery to see if it "rings any bells" for either of them.