Allium 2010

[Stephenb]

Thanks for this amusing analysis of the hairy Allium. Enjoyed reading it and all the links! Did you get any clues or change your mind as to which species it actually is. You earlier favoured it as Allium sphaerocephalon var. bulbilliferum. As a reminder this is what you said:

"Researching this thing on the web, it is attributed both to Allium vineale (the bulbilliferous Crow Garlic) and to a bulbilliferous form of Allium sphaerocephalon (var. bulbilliferum).  Judging from the photos I've seen, I would say it is Allium sphaerocephalon var. bulbilliferum, and not Allium vineale as attributed by so many nurseries.  Selling a totally bulbilliferous form of the invasive noxious weed like Allium vineale seems a questionable practice; if indeed 'Hair' is Allium sphaerocephalon var. bulbilliferum, the practice is not as egregious, although since there is no mention in any of the sales information I've seen, that all of those hairy "flowers" will drop off and root, most likely to become a nuisance and an invasive threat, the sale of this plant is still questionable."

The RHS is the biggest gardening organisation in the UK and in its Plant Finder it gives it as vineale  http://apps.rhs.org.uk/rhsplantfinder/pfregions.asp?ID=188330 - yes, surprising that they would encourage planting of a noxious weed. However, Hair was introduced in Europe where it is a native and isn't considered to be an invasive species. It's a different matter of course in the US (convenient then to call it sphaerocephalon!). I've bad experience with planting Allium oleraceum in my garden as it's difficult to eradicate once established and I imagine vineale could also be a problem if left unchecked (similarly the bulbiferous forms of A. carinatum).

As I mentioned earlier I bought my Hair originally from RHS Garden Wisley and it was noted at that time as A. oleraceum and a notice told the customer that this was less of a weed than the species. You can see some pictures of the offspring of my bald Hair from RHS below. It has flowers and bulbils but has very little "Hair" and as Mark notes this could be because I'm growing it on a bed next to the house where it's relatively dry.  My plants seem to match vineale (the bulbils are spherical, not pointed as in oleraceum). However, I don't have any information on the differences with the bulbiferous form of sphaerocephalon. I think there are differences in the leaves and leaf sheath but on my plant the leaves have withered (that in itself may point to vineale rather than sphaerocephalon?). I also have sphaerocephalon flowering at the moment and the flowers are somewhat larger than my Hair. I'm assuming here that there is only one Hair...

[Stephenb]

A few more white Alliums in flower at the moment including another mystery plant:

1. Allium saxatile album
2. Allium saxatile album together with a mystery plant
3-4. The mystery plant's inflorescence and a leaf cross-section - flattened and with two channels (difficult to see)
5-6. Allium albidum

[Stephenb]

Hope I'm not overloading you with Alliums, but here is one more, a small species with distinctive spots on the flowers:

[Stephenb]

I've just added 3 pictures of my Allium Hair that's lost its hair above...

[TheOnionMan]

I've just added 3 pictures of my Allium Hair that's lost its hair above...

Stephen, good photos of the post-Hair situation, the heads have more flowers than I would've imagined, and actually not half bad looking too.  The one thing I saw looking at many web photos, and as I indicated on at least one URL, is that some look totally bulbilliferous, and others show some degree of floriferousness with flower buds at the ready.  I'll have to defer to you, as I have not grown Allium 'Hair'... I've seen the bagged bulbs each fall at nurseries selling Dutch bulbs, but so far it hadn't mustered much of my attention. This year however I will have to get a bag, just to make a determination about what species it might actually be.

After finding web sites split between sphaerocephalon and vineale as being the species, I came to a logical assumption it must be sphaerocephalon (in the var. bulbilliferum form) because I doubt whether regular A. vineale is cultivated as an ornamental under mass-production, as it is not an attractive species with the flower heads largely (and variably) composed of bulbils.  On the other hand, Allium sphaerocephalon is mass-produced as an ornamental, and the species can be found in the mostly bulbilliferous form, and when such variants occur, Brian Mathew says it is okay to apply the name "var. bulbilliferum".  It seems a more likely situation, to have a field of wholly floriferous A. sphaerocephalon in which a hairy (bulbilliferous) sport was discovered, than for any such fields of A. vineale being grown in the first place, and secondly it would be unlikely to select out a partially or wholly bulbilliferous sport from a field full of partially or wholly bulbilliferous alliums.

So, this fall I will plant 'Hair' in an attempt to clear up this hairy situation, to find out which of the species claims is a bald faced lie

[TheOnionMan]

Hope I'm not overloading you with Alliums, but here is one more, a small species with distinctive spots on the flowers:

Stephen, is this Allium mairei?  At first, looking at the spots on the tepals, I'm thinking Allium callimischon ssp. haemostichum, but at second glance I think not (compare with: http://www.desirableplants.com/allium_callimiscion_var_haemostictum.jpg) because the rounded-tepaled flowers and whole morphology is different, the leaves clasp the stem almost to the inflorescence and dry off by flowering time.  I do believe it is Allium mairei, the basal foliage matches, as does the few-flowered inflorescence and petal shape.

I include some overexposed photos taken of my plants back in 2007, not very good pics, but the spotting is mostly restricted towards the center of the tepals, but some speckles on the ends of the tepals too, this feature is probably variable.

[Stephenb]

Re- Hair: Yes, it certainly makes sense, unless it was just a weed in the sphaerocephalon field? Anyway, glad you are up for the challenge and we'll await your conclusion in the Allium 2011 thread...

[Stephenb]

Re-Allium mairei: My notes tell me that I did sow and plant seedlings of Allium mairei amabile at about the same time but in a different part of the garden, so I guess things have got a bit mixed up. I'll do a check myself with the FOC key tonight. Is amabile a recognised variety/ssp? I see in FOC that amabile is a synonym.

Thanks again!

[fleurbleue]

Allium albidum is a very nice plant  I didn't know it

[Stephenb]

Re-Allium mairei: My notes tell me that I did sow and plant seedlings of Allium mairei amabile at about the same time but in a different part of the garden, so I guess things have got a bit mixed up. I'll do a check myself with the FOC key tonight. Is amabile a recognised variety/ssp? I see in FOC that amabile is a synonym.

Thanks again!

FOC/Allium mairei: Yes, a perfect match as far as I can see...

[TheOnionMan]

A few more white Alliums in flower at the moment including another mystery plant:

1. Allium saxatile album
2. Allium saxatile album together with a mystery plant
3-4. The mystery plant's inflorescence and a leaf cross-section - flattened and with two channels (difficult to see)
5-6. Allium albidum

Reference photos above, at: http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5766.msg164054#msg164054

Three interesting alliums, with a twist to the mystery.  Regarding 5-6, that's a nice form of Allium albidum. It appears to be Allium albidum ssp. albidum, with pedicels 2-3x the tepal length.  How tall is your plant in flower?  I have grown a number of forms in the past, but only currently have A. albidum ssp. caucasicum in a good compact form, which has shorter pedicels for a more compact head, and with supposedly slightly longer tepals than ssp. albidum.  I am showing two poor low-resolution images of A. albidum ssp. caucasicum  from 2002 (I lost the original hi-res images).  Incidentally, Allium albidum, which is close to Allium angulosum, freely hybridizes with Allium senescens, nutans, angulosum, and other rhizomatous alliums, most seedlings growing much taller and not white-flowered!

The mystery to me, seems to be the reverse of how you've stated it.  The Allium "saxatile album" in photos 1-2, I don't know what species it is, but I'd say it is not A. saxatile, whereas your mystery white Allium in photos 3-4 (and including 2) are Allium saxatile.  A key characteristic of Allium saxatile is the spathe that splits into two persistent "valves" or sections, one of which is much longer than the other and longer than the inflorescence... this can clearly be seen in your plants. Also, the ovary in Allium saxatile is rather prominent and globose, almost as long as the tepals.  I have included a couple links to Todd Boland's photo gallery of Alliums he has grown (he takes excellent photographs), one of a white flowered form of A. saxatile (regular species is white to many shades of pink), and one of a pale yellow form (pereviously known as A. marschallianum, now a synonym of saxatile).

Allium saxatile - white
http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2793531440103156031xKuajD

Allium saxatile - light yellow, aka A. "marschallianum"
http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2172179980103156031pmswCz

Todd's Ornamental Onions - Allium species and hybrids (some really good photos)
http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/album/562844038mNXfGR?start=0

So the question is, what species is shown in photos 1-2?  For me, the petal shape, head shape, and smallish ovaries of that allium suggest a different species.  Do you know where that allium is from?

[gote]

Göte, your Allium ovalifolium plants look very healthy and happy, growing more robustly than my single bulb, which remains a single bulb after 7 years, and never sets seed .  What is the source of your form?  The foliage on your plants also looks much more robust than on mine.  What sort of soil and light conditions is it growing in?  You're right about the "wildlife", my allium garden is quite literally "abuzz" with thousands of bees, wasps, and butterflies.

Please excuse my delay in answering. I have had many problems on my mind in the last few weeks and did not notice your query.
The source is Chen Yi. I have had it for many years and in the first two they were not growing well.
The situation is fairly shady with very little direct sunlight but some open sky above. It is a protected but cool part of the garden.
Soil: sandy but not allowed to dry out. Relatively high content of organic matter. pH low. Minimum temperature last winter was -26C but under much snow.
Datylorhizas like the situation.
Hope this is helpful
Göte
   

[Stephenb]

Reference photos above, at: http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5766.msg164054#msg164054

Three interesting alliums, with a twist to the mystery.  Regarding 5-6, that's a nice form of Allium albidum. It appears to be Allium albidum ssp. albidum, with pedicels 2-3x the tepal length.  How tall is your plant in flower?  I have grown a number of forms in the past, but only currently have A. albidum ssp. caucasicum in a good compact form, which has shorter pedicels for a more compact head, and with supposedly slightly longer tepals than ssp. albidum.  I am showing two poor low-resolution images of A. albidum ssp. caucasicum  from 2002 (I lost the original hi-res images).  Incidentally, Allium albidum, which is close to Allium angulosum, freely hybridizes with Allium senescens, nutans, angulosum, and other rhizomatous alliums, most seedlings growing much taller and not white-flowered!

I have this plant two places in the garden (same source), the one in the picture is about 40 cm and the other about 25 cm (probably due to drier more sunny conditions?). What is the wild range of ssp albidum?

Good to know that all these species may hybridize - I have all 4 you mention in the same area!

[TheOnionMan]

I have this plant two places in the garden (same source), the one in the picture is about 40 cm and the other about 25 cm (probably due to drier more sunny conditions?). What is the wild range of Allium albidum ssp albidum?

Good to know that all these species may hybridize - I have all 4 you mention in the same area!

By wild range, I mean the broad scope of variability in plant characteristics and forms.  Years ago after growing A. albidum from a number of locations and sources, some had poorly developed heads and rangy growth, unattractive plants overall, whereas others had much better developed flowers, in nice hemispherical heads (as in your plants).  Plant growth could be similarly variable.  The only one I currently grow is ssp. caucasicum which has the dwarf growth habit, which I like very much.  I compare this situation to Allium cernuum, often one can find unremarkable nondescript forms with few-flowered pallid heads, or much better forms, the variability of characteristics is extensive.

[Stephenb]

The mystery to me, seems to be the reverse of how you've stated it.  The Allium "saxatile album" in photos 1-2, I don't know what species it is, but I'd say it is not A. saxatile, whereas your mystery white Allium in photos 3-4 (and including 2) are Allium saxatile.  A key characteristic of Allium saxatile is the spathe that splits into two persistent "valves" or sections, one of which is much longer than the other and longer than the inflorescence... this can clearly be seen in your plants. Also, the ovary in Allium saxatile is rather prominent and globose, almost as long as the tepals.

Mark asked me to take a close-up picture of what I called Allium "saxatile album" above. As I mentioned both my Allium "saxatile album" and the mystery plant (now confirmed by Mark as Allium saxatile) are growing together and I've now found out that I actually planted two different plants received from different sources as A. saxatile beside one another here. The 4 pictures below show close-ups of the flowers, showing the spathes and the whole plant (all Allium "saxatile album").