Digression : propagation of variegated plants

[Gerry Webster]

Apart from that, can someone explain why Frit eduadii must be cut in half HORIZONTALLY in order to make two bulbs? Surely it would have to be vertically, through the base of the bulb?

In Lilies 1976 H.Y. Alkema describes a method for scaling frits in which the bulb is first cut vertically into 10 segments & then each segment is broken horizontally into several pieces. Alkema claims that by this means one bulb can be made to produce 130-150 new bulbs after 3 years. The method is said to work with F. imperialis, F. persica & F. meleagris cultivars.

[Susan Band]

Ah, but doing it on a variegated Frit imperialis doesn't work as all the resulting bulbs have different variegation  
Susan

[Lesley Cox]

Ah, but doing it on a variegated Frit imperialis doesn't work as all the resulting bulbs have different variegation  
Susan

And, let's face it, some don't look wildly healthy.

Oh well, I have 3 seedlings of F. eduardii so I shan't be too worried about propagating them vegetatively for a while.

[rob krejzl]

Green or yellow is easy to explain; green and yellow is a much more interesting result.

[Susan Band]

Its not the propagation method that makes them look sick, normal green leaved F. imperialis bulbs are fine, it is the fact that some of them have too much yellow in them and a bit of pink variegation. When I saw it I realized I was being stupid thinking that the variegation (gene?) would be evenly spread throughout the mass of the bulb. I presume tissue propagation is also difficult for variegated plants as part of the leaf is pure yellow and part pure green.
It will be interesting to see next year how they perform, the size of the bulbs weren't really different between the various types of variegation but I don't suppose the pure yellow ones will be able to survive many years without chlorophyll.  Each leaf that is shown is a different bulb that hadn't been separated in the photo, they are now, and will appear again in the spring.
The bottom halves of the bulbs do not produce extra bulbs but do flower with normal variegation and produce a replacement bulb in the autumn.
Hope this explains it a bit, no doubt someone will have a more scientific explanation, I am only a propergater 
Susan

[Gerry Webster]

Its not the propagation method that makes them look sick, normal green leaved F. imperialis bulbs are fine, it is the fact that some of them have too much yellow in them and a bit of pink variegation. When I saw it I realized I was being stupid thinking that the variegation (gene?) would be evenly spread throughout the mass of the bulb. I presume tissue propagation is also difficult for variegated plants as part of the leaf is pure yellow and part pure green.
It will be interesting to see next year how they perform, the size of the bulbs weren't really different between the various types of variegation but I don't suppose the pure yellow ones will be able to survive many years without chlorophyll.  Each leaf that is shown is a different bulb that hadn't been separated in the photo, they are now, and will appear again in the spring.
The bottom halves of the bulbs do not produce extra bulbs but do flower with normal variegation and produce a replacement bulb in the autumn.
Hope this explains it a bit, no doubt someone will have a more scientific explanation, I am only a propergater 
Susan

Your explanation sounds plausible Susan, though I wonder whether the variegation is a consequence of an irregularly distributed virus infection rather than genetic variation (somatic mutation). 

[Susan Band]

It was Fritillaria imperialis AUREOMARGINATA that was cut if that helps in determining the cause of variegation.
Obviously this has been tried in the past and shown not to work that is why they are so expensive in relation to the other Frit imperialis.
Susan

[gote]

I think I have read somewhere that some types of varigeation are unevenly distributed in the plant. That is the plant is a kind of "graft hybrid". (I think there is a scientifcally correct word for it but it eluds me) In those cases, one can "de-hybridize by propagating from a small enough piece.
There is a type of Convallaria with very light colured veins. I have tried it twice and from year two on the variegation was gone. Any explanation??
Göte 

[rob krejzl]

Gote - I think you're referring to a graft-chimera. The possibility of a chimera was what I was thinking about when I said that  g+y was a more interesting result.

[Susan Band]

Gote,
I know that Convallaria. It is very unstable with me. Although I have a lot propagated, various parts of the clump are variegated on different years and I can't sell it as I can't guarantee the variegation. Some years are better than others, I have tried digging out the green parts but the next year they could be variegated and the rest green   .
It will be interesting to see how the young Frits develop in the next few years. I will keep everyone informed.
Maggie perhaps you could move this to a new thread as we are well off topic.

susan

[Maggi Young]

Good idea, Susan.... I have done  just that.

[gote]

Gote - I think you're referring to a graft-chimera. The possibility of a chimera was what I was thinking about when I said that  g+y was a more interesting result.

That is the word. I think old age is setting in. I did knew it once.
Göte

[gote]

Gote,
I know that Convallaria. It is very unstable with me. Although I have a lot propagated, various parts of the clump are variegated on different years and I can't sell it as I can't guarantee the variegation. Some years are better than others, I have tried digging out the green parts but the next year they could be variegated and the rest green   .
It will be interesting to see how the young Frits develop in the next few years. I will keep everyone informed.
susan

I agree  .
Göte

[Roma]

Possibly not the right place for this picture but graft-chimera was mentioned in this thread.  This is a grafted beech tree, Fagus sylvatica which my daughter was given a few years ago.  I have not seen this anywhere else.  There are green, purple and striped leaves on different branches on the same plant.

[Lvandelft]

Roma, I did send you a PM with an address.