Crocus: October 2010

[Janis Ruksans]

Oron - superb crocuses from  Crete. I had just the same problem some years ago - found only one small population of tournefortii on N side of island. Certainly must go to Crete in November, then must be much more blooming plants.

Tony, don't think that this goulimyi is mutant. Most likely it is result of temperature or other environmental reasons which will disappear next season. I had this autumn few such plants between C. mathewii, too. I marked those plants, to check them next autumn.

Here is very dark, cloudy and rainy weather. Crocuses continue to come up but flowers stay closed, so during last few days no pictures I made. Hoped for sun today, as during night we had full moon - it was so light outside, that it was possible to read, but morning greeted with snowing and warning about heavy storm in afternoon, so I'm afraid that for me will be impossible to show you something new today.

Janis

[Janis Ruksans]

Crocus moabiticus is one of the rarest and very seldom grown.  I am unsure about the plants I have which are in flower now.  They have a good pedigree but are at lea ts 2nd generation in cultivation.  It is possible the plants I grow are hybrids with another in the sativus group, perhaps crocus Cartwrightianus.  They are very attractive, gradually expanding in size as they age.  When I showed pictures in a lecture recently I expressed my doubts about their status, a wag at the back shouted out "if they're still alive they're not moabiticus"!  I'll leave it to the (other) experts to decide

Really I can't see any difference from true moabiticus. There are excellent pictures of it on John Lonsdale's garden website. It is described as leafless during flowering but Oron Peri in nature pictured forms without and with leaves at blooming time. It looks that in cultivation where more moisture available due more watering comparing with nature, it forms leaves during blooming. As usually I lost my plants and at present haven't it in my collection.
Janis

[Janis Ruksans]

Snowstorm came very soon and now all is covered with white. Used short moment when snowing was not very heavy to make some pictures. On the first you can see greenhouses from outside some minutes ago. Outside you can see beehives - my great helpers in pollination, although autumn crocuses here mostly are pollinated by bumblebees.
Next is my large polytunnell from inside, so shaded, that I used maximum sensitivity available for my camera. The same with Crocus house.
In crocus greenhouse all flowers are closed - single exception is C. cartwrightianus (pictured using flashlight). I'm not very keen in picturing with flashlight, so other forms turned of too poor quality, when I saw pictures on computers screen and so I can't show them now. Too unpleasant weather outside to go back. It is offered some sunny days next week, then I hope to show more pictures.
Sometimes closed flowers allows better to see variability - here you can see variability in Crocus aleppicus from Israel outside color (pictured using flashlight, so quality...).
On the last picture I tried to show the pot with Crocus hadriaticus seedlings. One of those flowers was showed on this entry earlier - with white anthers, this one at this moment is almost died and remnants you can see on right side, hided between leaves. Flowers from other seedlings came out much later (I even supposed that corms are too small to bloom - it is the first blooming of this pot) and you can see how great is difference, confirming that they are hybrids (made by bees). Picture is made without flashlight, using maximal sensitivity and maximal exposure usable without tripod and something improwed by Photoshop.
Janis

[christian pfalz]

hello janis,
wow, here only frost about -3°c, at moment sunny and the temps gone up over 0°c.
i hope the snow can wait a  while here in germany 
have a nice day
cheers
chris

[Oron Peri]

Thank you all for the nice comments,

Crocus moabiticus is one of the rarest and very seldom grown.  I am unsure about the plants I have which are in flower now.  They have a good pedigree but are at leats 2nd generation in cultivation.  It is possible the plants I grow are hybrids with another in the sativus group, perhaps crocus Cartwrightianus.  They are very attractive, gradually expanding in size as they age.  When I showed pictures in a lecture recently I expressed my doubts about their status, a wag at the back shouted out "if they're still alive they're ot moabiticus"!  I'll leave it to the (other) experts to decide

Tony,
I do not think your plant is C. moabiticus or at least not a pure one:
From my observations, leaves of C. moabiticus have a prominent white tip [ cloves like]almost thorny and quite stiff  in contact.
Buds are golden outside [back of tepals] or golden with a few marked veins.
Back ground of petal's surface  is generally white with different levels and intensity of purple veins.
Attached a photo of one of the darkest forms i have seen in the wild, as you can notice the background is quite white with wider veins but not purplish washed as in your plant.
I think your plant might be a hybrid with cartwrightianus.
The suggestion that 'if they are still alive they are not moabiticus' is not wrong, i find this species very difficult to grow, two more drops of water and they rot.

[tonyg]

Tony, not only do you show choice Crocus, but ones that are artistically photographed, really enjoy such Croci-candy.  I'm also intrigued by the prospect of interspecific hybrids, so many possibilities can be imagined in an active hybridization program.  Are the hybrids you show naturally occurring hybrid seedlings, or are you making such crosses specifically?  The C. tournefortii x boryi plants look most desirable, although I'm not so sure about the goulimyi mini-me!

Thanks
Hybrids.   Well I'd rather keep them pure species but in a collection like this its not easy.  Interspecific hybrids - between different species are less common but do occur with closely related species.  But then you have to ask if we have the species boundaries fully defined.  After all the classification is just our way of trying to make sense of things.  They do occur in the wild but not as often as in cultivation where we grow and flower a wide range at the same time and in the same place.
Intraspecific hybrids - between different forms of the same species are the most easily produced.  Indeed growing arange of clones improves seed set hugely.  The goulimyi appear to be ssp leucanthus x ssp goulimyi but as has been discussed before these two are very different to tell apart and might better be considered as forms of one taxa.

[tonyg]

Crocus moabiticus is one of the rarest and very seldom grown.  I am unsure about the plants I have which are in flower now.  They have a good pedigree but are at lea ts 2nd generation in cultivation.  It is possible the plants I grow are hybrids with another in the sativus group, perhaps crocus Cartwrightianus.  They are very attractive, gradually expanding in size as they age.  When I showed pictures in a lecture recently I expressed my doubts about their status, a wag at the back shouted out "if they're still alive they're not moabiticus"!  I'll leave it to the (other) experts to decide

Really I can't see any difference from true moabiticus. There are excellent pictures of it on John Lonsdale's garden website. It is described as leafless during flowering but Oron Peri in nature pictured forms without and with leaves at blooming time. It looks that in cultivation where more moisture available due more watering comparing with nature, it forms leaves during blooming. As usually I lost my plants and at present haven't it in my collection.
Janis

My plants come  from the same source as John Lonsdales.  Indeed two corms he sent me.  I think that they are likely hybrid.   I once had seed of true plants, they took many years to die without ever being more than small corms

Oron thanks for your feedback.  Lovely pics of the real thing!

[I.S.]

  On my climate also the crocus season is started.
First is C. cancellatus subsp. damascenus From nort part of Göksun. This one has more slender petals.
Second one is C. kotschyanus subsp. cappadocicus. This one also I have recieved from same where without any selection when the leaves started to dry. But it is very nice feathered and unbelievable dark violet (much darker than the photos) it can be a contestant for climb to top.

[I.S.]

  And my two different subsp. of pallasii. It is not easy to identify from flowers only turcicus has more thiny petals (also little wrinkle. I don't know if this is common for this subsp.)
  But in spring it is very easy to identify, turcicus has few broad leaves while subsp. pallasii have many thiny leaves. These two pallasii subsp. I have recieved from Gaziantep.

[Janis Ruksans]

 On my climate also the crocus season is started.
First is C. cancellatus subsp. damascenus From nort part of Göksun. This one has more slender petals.
Second one is C. kotschyanus subsp. cappadocicus. This one also I have recieved from same where without any selection when the leaves started to dry. But it is very nice feathered and unbelievable dark violet (much darker than the photos) it can be a contestant for climb to top.

VERY NICE DARK CAPPADOCICUS. I THIS AUTUMN MARKED ONE BETWEEN MY PLANTS, TOO, BUT YOURS DEFINITELY IS EVEN DARKER. AS YOU - I COLLECTED MY PLANTS IN DRY LEAVES AND NEVER BEFORE SAW ALL POPULATION IN BLOOMING TIME TO CHECK HOW GREAT IS VARIABILITY IN NATURE. WOULD LIKE TO SEE THIS.
Janis

[ArnoldT]

The two Crocus cartwrightianus.

[jnovis]

Three of my Longiflorus and one Tournefortii flowering last few days.

[Armin]

Great stuff from everybody. If I only could grow them all outside

Yesterday morning we had frost -2°C.  I took some pictures in the morning and around noontime when we got sunshine for ~ 1 1/2 hours and +10°C.

[art600]

Got back today from Crete, bulbs definitely are late to bloom this year due to a boiling summer.
The only Crocus i have seen was this nice colony of C. tournefortii with fine color,
they grow in full shade on and underneath a north facing wall.

Sıtuatıon ın Turkey ıs very sımılar.  Crocus and Galanthus peshmenıı are very dıffıcult to fınd.

Colchıcums aplenty and I wıll post some photos on my return - hopefully someone wıll be able to ıdentıfy them.

[Janis Ruksans]

Weather broadcast for today was some hours of sun. There were few lighter hours but sun didn't show its face, so only few crocuses slightly opened and very few pictures were maid. The first on this entry is blue form of Crocus robertianus. This year I got another stock even darker blue, but it is a little later and still buds were to closed.
Nicely blooms quite special form selected from open pollinated seedlings of Crocus hadriaticus, most likely hybrid. As on last picture ('Purple Heart'), I suppose that pollen parent most likely is C. cartwrightianus.
Crocus cartwrightianus as usually stay open even in such weather.
As last I'm showing picture of Crocus which is supposed to be hybrid between hadriaticus and cartwrightianus and named by it's breeder as PURPLE HEART. It was offered by Paul Christian as Dutch selection from Crocus niveus seedlings, but it is not true. Really it was selected by Antoine Hoog (France), who wrote me, that this marvellous plant appeared between his seedlings of Crocus hadriaticus, original stock of which he got from Holland under wrong name as niveus, but really it turned to be hadriaticus. As seeds were collected from open pollinated plants, pollen parent actually isn't known, but seem to be cartwrightianus.
Hope next week will be more sunny.
Janis