Species Narcissus?

[Phill]

Hello, as an sporadic purchaser of Narcissus from run of the mill retail outlets, I was puzzled to find many packages of what purported to be "Species narcissus" (Taylor's Bulbs). The vast majority of these were what I had been led to believe were hybrids. Am I mistaken?, are they "selections" of species? one of them was Tete-a-Tete. I am confused.

[David Nicholson]

Hi Phil, I think Taylors are applying a "marketing" definition to the word "species"

Tete-a-Tete was bred by Alec Grey in 1949, the seed parent being 'Cyclatz' and open pollinated pollen. You can check out details of most hybrids here, including full genetic histories.

http://daffseek.org/query/query.php

[Maggi Young]

Hello Phill, good to have you join us. 

 It is common to find commercially offered bulb packets , of all sorts of genera, Tulips, Crocus, Narcissus etc, labelled as "species.....".... as David  says, this is a tool used  by the sellers to designate plants which are , in general, miniature types....  to distinguish them from the "average" garden centre types of such  bulbs which tend to be the taller, garden or "florists'" varieties. Thus if a packet is labelled "species", it may well be a hybrid or a selected form of a species but the point being made by the seller is that these are diminutive sorts, closer to the "natural" species from which they are derived.

 Witness the bags of "Dutch" crocus.... these are the large flowered, taller hybrids and "Species" crocus, which are chrysanthus and biflorus hybrids of smaller stature.

Hope this helps? 

[JPB]

So the "species-concept" is finally defined, thanks to the marketing skills of the Professors of Commercial Botany: Small plants are species, while large ones are not!

[Maggi Young]

Yes, priceless, isn't it? Think of all the time and effort that could have been saved educating all those botanists! 

[Anthony Darby]

What annoys me is being sold a dozen "species" cyclamineus and ending up with a potful of 'Tête à tête' not worth the postage far less the purchase price.

[Gerry Webster]

So the "species-concept" is finally defined, thanks to the marketing skills of the Professors of Commercial Botany: Small plants are species, while large ones are not!

Well, not much worse than other species concepts which have been proposed - though I suppose there is scope for discussion on what might be understood by "small" & "large".

Does anyone else remember " botanical tulips"? So called to distinguish them from the zoological kind I suppose.

[JPB]

"A species is a species if a competent taxonomist defines it as a species"  How about that one?! There's more truth in it than one might think at first sight 

[Paul T]

Hans,

Now we need the definition of "competent botanist"?   Competent in whose eyes?

 

[Anthony Darby]

Hans,

Now we need the definition of "competent botanist"?    Competent in whose eyes?

 

Gene Pool?

[Gerry Webster]

Cary O'Type can sometimes be relied on.

[Anthony Darby]

Not sure if Phil O'Geny can?

[Gerry Webster]

Totally unreliable - he depends too much on the theories of Eve O' Lution.

[JPB]

Phil O'Geneti and his wife Cally are worth considering 

[JPB]

"A species is a species if a competent taxonomist defines it as a species"  How about that one?! There's more truth in it than one might think at first sight 

Of course this will elicit jokes, but is was seriously brought in by my professor during an international meeting on the species concept years ago. We PhD students all laughed, but getting older and wiser I found that it was not that bad a definition at all. It is harder to define a species that it is to find a competent taxonomist....Hmmm, I smell Popper, Kuhn and Lakatos