Aquilegia saximontana

[TheOnionMan]

I am disappointed by this topic. I understand many of my aquilegias are under wrong names.

But now I can not say they are truly recognized. 

Olga, don't be too disappointed, you have some beautiful columbines there.  The fact that Aquilegia are promiscuous and garden grown seed cannot be relied upon for species purity goes way back... I attach a scan taken from Gentes Herbarum, 1946, with some discussion on Aquilegia flabellata... it is rather telling regarding the confusion that already ensued back in the early 20th century.

Your first white and blue one (not saximontana) looks similar to the link that Moravian posted above, here it is again:
http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/main/153947/199815274
...a plant that goes around as A. discolor, A. pyrenaica subsp. discolor.

Your last one is an exquisite rose form, very nice.  I notice the name "pumilio" is used sometimes, there is a var. pumila... can't tell how large your pink flabellata is, but it is a gem.  Your plants nicely photographed as usual.

[TheOnionMan]

Just came across this photo of Aquilegia saximontana in a past NARGS Rock Garden Quarterly, Volume 66 Number 3 Summer 2008, the photo courtesy of Denver Botanic Garden.  Here again we see the light airy foliage and flowers with divergent spurs. 

[Gunilla]

Very interesting topic.  Like you, Olga I have a lot of misnamed Aquilegias and this tiny blue and white one looks similar to your first.
Wrongly named A. saximontana.

[Great Moravian]

I am disappointed by this topic. I understand many of my aquilegias are under wrong names.

This one came like A. saximontana

A. pyrenaica subsp. dicolor
***
This one like A. bertolonii

A. pyrenaica subsp. pyrenaica  or A. bertolonii. The latter is usually a coarser plant.
***
This - A. discolor

Cultivar of A. flabellata var. pumila
***
A. flabellata v. pumilio

Cultivar of A. flabellata var.pumila
***
And A. flabellata v. pumilio Rosea

Cultivar of A. flabellata var pumila

But now I can not say they are truly recognized.  

[cohan]

an interesting topic..
how far do aquilegias go with their promiscuity? if for example  i had a couple of large garden cultivars, and one of the north american native oranges, (i do) and were to get wild collected seed of one of the western miniatures, such as jonesii or others, would these be sufficiently different to be safe, or will they still cross among themselves?

[TheOnionMan]

an interesting topic..
how far do aquilegias go with their promiscuity? if for example  i had a couple of large garden cultivars, and one of the north american native oranges, (i do) and were to get wild collected seed of one of the western miniatures, such as jonesii or others, would these be sufficiently different to be safe, or will they still cross among themselves?

Unless one were to keep plants isolated and covered to prevent insect pollination, then the flowers selfed, it is my belief that they will start hybridizing right away.  I have found that all of the North American red and red-orange types will hybridize readily with other species, to such a degree that one needs to be growing plants from wild seed often to keep them going in the garden.  You'll get close look-alikes from seed, but one loses confidence in only a few years of growing seedlings after seeing first hand the hybrid shift.

I've never been fortunate enough to grow A. jonesii, and it could be that some highly specialized and genetically isolated species are not so quick to produce interspecific hybrids, but in my experience open-pollinated Aquilegia seedlings will very quickly turn into columbine soup, the soup can be muddled and of diminished quality, or be rather good one with pretty plants.  On the NARGS Forum, I posted a photo essay of a garden visit of a friend's garden in Central, Massachusetts, there are some photos of Aquilegia shown there, such as A. barnebyii (exquisite, grown from wild collected seed), but I make mention of the owner's older part of the garden in which Aquilegia have seeded about for years and blended into surprisingly pretty mix of colors, all obviously hybrids.
http://nargs.org/smf/index.php?topic=373.0

What I did not show in that essay, are the many plants of A. "canadensis" in his garden... while they look like canadensis at quick first glance, when you look closely one realizes these are hybrids, intergrading with dominant vulgaris types.  In many gardens it seems that A. flabellata is strong genetically, an overriding presence in subsequent generations of seedlings, this has been my experience through the years.  Moravian indicated that A. pyrenaica ssp. pyrenaica and A. pyrenaica ssp. discolor don't cross (amongst themselves), but I suspect they still cross with other species, Aquilegia being the most promiscuous of promiscuous genera.

[Olga Bondareva]

Thank you Mark and Great Moravian!

So there are no A. saximontana between mine. Could you (or somebody) show me A. scopulorum? I have 2 years old plants with very blue leaves. But they still have not flowered.

And may I ask you about some more Aquilegias?
This one I get from seed taken at Tajikistan.

 
It is a favorit of slugs and fungi.  

This one is named like A. laramiensis.



It is small and leaves are purplish.

[TheOnionMan]

The American Aquilegia scopulorum is less confused than saximontana, as scopulorum is a small bun of foliage with variably colored flowers with exceptionally long spurs, the flowers tending to face upwards.  Here are some good links:

Aquilegia scopulorum
http://www.rmrp.com/Photo%20Pages/AA/Aquilegia%20scopulorum%20100DPI.htm

http://www.fs.fed.us/wildflowers/beauty/columbines/aquilegia_scopulorum.shtml

Nice views here, scroll down after gallery loads:
http://aplantaday.blogspot.com/2010_07_01_archive.html

http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=AQSC
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=233500116

[Olga Bondareva]

Thanks Mark!

Leaves looks similar. My plants didn't flowered so I didn't saw spurs. 

[Maggi Young]

There will be a lovely A. scopulorum ssp. perplexans picture by Joyce Carruthers in the International Rock Gardener for November.

[cohan]

an interesting topic..
how far do aquilegias go with their promiscuity? if for example  i had a couple of large garden cultivars, and one of the north american native oranges, (i do) and were to get wild collected seed of one of the western miniatures, such as jonesii or others, would these be sufficiently different to be safe, or will they still cross among themselves?

Unless one were to keep plants isolated and covered to prevent insect pollination, then the flowers selfed, it is my belief that they will start hybridizing right away.  I have found that all of the North American red and red-orange types will hybridize readily with other species, to such a degree that one needs to be growing plants from wild seed often to keep them going in the garden.  You'll get close look-alikes from seed, but one loses confidence in only a few years of growing seedlings after seeing first hand the hybrid shift.

good to know, mark..i haven't got any of the little blues, yet, but would like to at some point..
there is a small patch of some large garden hybrid slowly seeding around in a dry area under an old spruce--the original plant has 'black' flowers, but i saw a white flowering seedling this year, first to flower, though the original has  been there many years; the orange flowered plants are originally from b.c. (around 30 years ago, but overgrown by junipers)and are maybe 50metres or more from the others, i just noticed one orange flowered seedling 10m or so from the parent..

when i go for a blue i will go for wild seed, and maybe deadhead...

[Graham Catlow]

I have been watching this from the start and it just gets more complicated.
The reason for my interest is that I bought A. scopulorum in the Spring but it is not scopulorum. In fact it looks nothing like scopulorum. It flowered but I didn't photograph it. It looks closer to saximontana but I will have to wait until next year for a photo.
I also bought A. pyrenaica and A. canadensis both of which may not be what I thought they were.
Will just have to wait until the Spring.
Graham

[TheOnionMan]

There will be a lovely A. scopulorum ssp. perplexans picture by Joyce Carruthers in the International Rock Gardener for November.

I'm a bit confused, I saw a nice photo of A. scopulorum var. scopulorum in the International Rock Gardener for October, is the November issue already out?

Just a point of nomenclature, the name A. scopulorum "ssp. perplexans" Clokey 1938 is a synonym for A. scopulorum.  The "ssp. perplexans" was named for a race in Southern Nevada (not Utah) with more color variability than was thought normal, but soon put into synonymy with the type species.  There does exist A. scopulorum var. calcarea, which is recognized by USDA but not Flora of North America, for a race with petioles that are glandular-pubescent.  There is also a recent Aquilegia scopulorum var. goodrichii S.L.Welsh 2003, which I know almost nothing about, except that it is on the endangered list.
http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=AQSC
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=233500116

[Maggi Young]

The November issue of IRG wil not be online until 26th November. 
The photo that will be included is of that multi coloured race you mention.
The  ssp. perplexans is kept by the author and I am happy to go with that.
The information as to the name changes /synonomy are easily found by those seeking further information but the relevance is to a population of variously coloured plants.   

[TheOnionMan]

Thanks Maggi, I look forward to seeing the next IRG issue with that photo, along with more buckwheats.

I'm out for the day, but tonight will post what is written about A. scopulorum ssp. perplexans in the Gentes Herbarum monograph on Aquilegia, it explains the color variation and I think readers will be interested.