Looking for Aquilegia turkestanica seeds

[maggiepie]

Thanks to Mark's thread on A. saximontana, I have been looking through various Japanese blogs and found pics of A. turkestanica, so of course I want some.

Have looked high and low but can't find a source for seeds and would be extremely grateful if someone can point me towards a source.

Here is a link to pics.

http://homepage2.nifty.com/ptech/flora/aquilegia/aquilegiaTurkestanica.html

Simply beautiful!!!

[Great Moravian]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/botalex/3801411046
Aquilegia vicaria

[maggiepie]

Great Moravian, are you saying A. turkestanica is actually A. vicaria?
I can't find any information on seed sources for it either.

[Great Moravian]

Precisely. Aquilegia turkestanica is a trade fantasy.

[TheOnionMan]

Never heard of A. vicaria, but it looks to be a most elegant one.  I see that there is no published name Aquilegia turkestanica per IPNI.ORG, although as comprehensive as IPNI is, I have found a few cases where validly published names are missing from their database.... just a word of caution using IPNI, although one can assume they have 99.99% of it all recorded.

[Great Moravian]

The binomial Aquilegia vicaria is now extensively applied in Russian materials, but not in the Flora SSSR. I suppose it was involved in Aquilegia lactiflora formerly. Merely Aquilegia lactiflora is in Flora of China. The description of Aquilegia vicaria was allegedly published already in 1937. Recently, Aquilegia pseudovicaria was published. The latter should differ in the length of spurs. The difference is probably minimal if any.
Aquilegia tianschanica described in 1941 is similar too.
http://www.richjourney.euweb.cz/kyr/foto/2/098_en.htm
An identification key in Russian is as follows.
3.-Боковые вторичные доли листьев сидячие или на коротких черешочках, средняя на ясно заметном черешке---4
+.-Все вторичные доли листьев сидячие
ВОДОСБОР ТЯНЬШАНЬСКИЙ - Aquilegia tianschanica A. But.
4.-Шпорцы почти равны чашелистикам или длиннее их. Листовки около 1 см дл. (считая без носика). Черешки среднего сегмента первичных долей листа в 2-2,5 раза длиннее боковых. Листья голые или редко волосистые
ВОДОСБОР ЗАМЕНЯЮЩИЙ - Aquilegia vicaria Nevskii.
+.-Шпорцы короче чашелистиков или равны им. Листовка 1,3-2 см дл. (считая без носика)
ВОДОСБОР ЛОЖНОЗАМЕНЯЮЩИЙ - Aquilegia pseudovicaria Nik.

[TheOnionMan]

The flower of Aquilegia tianschanica shown in your first link is very attractive, I like how the spurs cross themselves.  Do you think running that short key through one of the language translation web sites would work, or because botanical terms are no doubt used in the key, the translation would be poor?

[TheOnionMan]

Moravian, I threw that small key into Google Translate, here's what comes out (unedited except for visual line feeds):

3. - Lateral secondary shares leaves sessile or on short petioles, on average clearly marked petiole --- 4
   - All secondary shares leaves sessile
     Catchment area of the Tien Shan - Aquilegia tianschanica A. But.

4. - spur subequal sepals or longer. Leaflets about 1 cm long. (Assuming without spout). Petioles of the middle segment of the primary leaf fraction in 2-2,5 times longer than the lateral. Leaves glabrous or sparsely pilose
SUBSTITUTE Columbine - Aquilegia vicaria Nevskii.

  - Spur shorter than the sepals or equal to them. Leaflet 1,3-2 cm long. (Assuming without spout)
LOZHNOZAMENYAYUSCHY Columbine - Aquilegia pseudovicaria Nik.

[Great Moravian]

The translation is really comical. I supposed a Russian member would translate it. The fruit of Aquilegia is called folliculus,
the persistent style on it is rostrum.
---
.-Боковые вторичные доли листьев сидячие или на коротких черешочках, средняя на ясно заметном черешке---4
Lateral second order parts of leaves sessile or on short little petioles, the median one on a clearly visible petiole
+.-Все вторичные доли листьев сидячие
All second order parts of leaves sessile
         ВОДОСБОР ТЯНЬШАНЬСКИЙ - Aquilegia tianschanica A. But.
4.-Шпорцы почти равны чашелистикам или длиннее их. Листовки около 1 см дл. (считая без носика). Черешки среднего сегмента
Spurs nearly equal to sepals or longer to the latter. Folliculi about 1 cm long (taken without rostrum). Petioles of the median segment
первичных долей листа в 2-2,5 раза длиннее боковых. Листья голые или редко волосистые
of the first order parts of leaf 2-2.5 times longer to lateral ones. Leaves glabrous or sparsely hairy
         ВОДОСБОР ЗАМЕНЯЮЩИЙ - Aquilegia vicaria Nevskii
+.-Шпорцы короче чашелистиков или равны им. Листовка 1,3-2 см дл. (считая без носика)
Spur shorter than the sepals or equal to them. Folliculus 1.3-2 cm long (taken without rostrum)
         ВОДОСБОР ЛОЖНОЗАМЕНЯЮЩИЙ - Aquilegia pseudovicaria Nik.
---
A. lactiflora, A. karatavica and A. darwazii belong to the alliance too. A. pseudovicaria is usually regarded as a synonym of A. lactiflora. A bluish-flowered A. lactiflora is occasionally called A. coelestis.

[TheOnionMan]

The translation is really comical. I supposed a Russian member would translate it.

I suspected the translation wouldn't be great, but it did better than I thought.  I wondered what the "assuming without spout" referred in the context of leaves, that is comical.

To make the small key easier to read (for English readers), I edited out the Russian language part and added formatting.  By the way, under the description for A. pseudovicaria, what does the measurement "Leaflet 1,3-2 cm long" refer to?  I don't understand how to interpret "1,3-2 cm".


3. Lateral second order parts of leaves sessile or on short little petioles, the median one on a
   clearly visible petiole. All second order parts of leaves sessile
   - Aquilegia tianschanica A. But.

4. Spurs nearly equal to sepals or longer to the latter. Leaflets about 1 cm long (taken without nose).
   Petioles of the median segment of the first order parts of leaf 2-2.5 times longer to lateral ones.
   Leaves glabrous or sparsely hairy
   - Aquilegia vicaria Nevskii

   Spur shorter than the sepals or equal to them. Leaflet 1,3-2 cm long
   - Aquilegia pseudovicaria Nik.

[Maggi Young]

  By the way, under the description for A. pseudovicaria, what does the measurement "Leaflet 1,3-2 cm long" refer to?  I don't understand how to interpret "1,3-2 cm".

 These measurements are often  typed confusingly.... I take this to mean the leaves vary from 1.3 cm to 2 cm in length

[Great Moravian]

By the way, under the description for A. pseudovicaria, what does the measurement "Leaflet 1,3-2 cm long" refer to?  I don't understand how to interpret "1,3-2 cm".

folliculus 1.3 to 2 cm long without rostrum

[Great Moravian]

Replace leaflets by folliculi and nose by rostrum in the colour key.

[Great Moravian]

  By the way, under the description for A. pseudovicaria, what does the measurement "Leaflet 1,3-2 cm long" refer to?  I don't understand how to interpret "1,3-2 cm".

 These measurements are often  typed confusingly.... I take this to mean the leaves vary from 1.3 cm to 2 cm in length

folliculus 1.3-2 cm ... decimal point is a an Anglosaxon speciality, decimal comma is usual in other parts of the world