2010/11 catalogues

[kentish_lass]

is this Stag? 

You need to inspect the bulb.  A healthy bulb should look white if you wash it and rub off the dead outer layers as necessary.  And it should have a good root system.  A bulb with Stagonospora will not come completely clean or will be stained.  It will probably have few roots.  In a bad case the ends of the leaves look as if they have been burned.

Thanks Alan for your help.  I was worried sick when I saw it as it is a brand new acquisition....and from Wisley.  Should I wash the soil off the bulb now?

[Warren Desmond]

Hi All

Loving all the Galanthus images...

Brian...the detail you have managed to capture of the flower is phenomenal...especially with the close up ones...I thought the only way to capture the sheen on a flower needed to be taken outside in the sunshine...but you live and learn 
but
Here are a few of mine...

1) daglinworth
2) diggory
3) nothing special
4) pat mason...been after that one since Paddy I think posted an image last year...
5) flower bed done last year

Regards

Warren

[Alan_b]

Here is a picture of the Galanthus nivalis "Charlotte" on display at the W & S Lockyer stand at the RHS Show.  I consulted (or maybe 'buttonholed') Joe Sharman about it but we both thought it seemed to be a perfectly ordinary nivalis without any distinguishing features.  The distinguishing feature it is supposed to have, an extra white inner petal, was not present on any of the flowers we examined. 

[KentGardener]

Hi Alan

An English translation of the Dutch suppliers information is:

Galanthus nivalis 'Charlotte'
Belongs to: 8 Galanthus Imperial Group.
An incredible flowering form of the
common snowdrop. The bulbs
verklisteren rapidly and flower as early as one
small bulb size. The photo is of a clump
that after a few years originated from only
a sphere. Because of this habit creates
no large bulbs, but you will of course
the greatest. Height: 15-20 cm.

So sounds like an ordinary looking nivalis that builds into a clump quickly 

[Alan_b]

Hmmm?  Maybe kentish_lass will post to tell us she has 10 already?  The description I read (courtesy of the link Brian Ellis gave on Page 7 of this thread) says:

Belongs to: 8 Galanthus Imperial Group. The still find onbenaamde immediately caught my attention. The inner green, white-edged petals grow an extra white petal. Curious and fun together. Healthy growth, strong gray-green leaves with pollen. Height: 25 cm. Flowering time: February to March.

I'm actually much in favour of cultivating snowdrops that are 'just good doers'; Joe Sharman has his "nothing special" in that category, for example.  But as a marketing strategy it seems a bit risky.  I wonder how extensively "Charlotte" has been tested?

[Maggi Young]

I'm actually much in favour of cultivating snowdrops that are 'just good doers'; Joe Sharman has his "nothing special" in that category, for example.  But as a marketing strategy it seems a bit risky.  I wonder how extensively "Charlotte" has been tested?

 I've said this before but I will say it again... how many of the named 'drops have been 'tested' in the sense of having a good number of years of growing in ordinary garden conditions to prove their worth, constitution and stability?  Precious few. 
"New " types are named and seized upon as by ravening wolves and then there is disappointment when the 'drops either die fast or change their markings.....the whole thing is daft.

[johnw]

Maggi - Hopefully Martin's approach will lead to very vigorous and dependable snowdrops.

re: unstable markings I think Green Brush is getting bad press prematurely. As I recall the book says wait a few years until a bulb is fully established and has gained some size before it exhibits its true potential. As well greenhouse culture throws markings out of whack. "In the green" torture surely doesn't help matters.  And Gerard clearly stated in response to Martin that it is a selected cultivar.

Look at magnolias and 'Vulcan' in particular, a gorgeous red in NZ. In BC it took over 10 years to flower red, previously it was a dirty pink then a ho-hum pink. Will it continue on red, who knows? Maybe our climates will never produce the same colour as the NZ climate & sun does. Even the understock has been implicated. It is still a disappointment in many parts of the UK and on the east coast of North America but everyone seems willing to wait it out. Perhaps after 25 years we will be able to determine what it requires but no one I know is ready to toss it.  BTW seedling magnolias are never judged until the 3 or 4th year of flowering and the changes can be dramatic.             

Patience. Patience. Patience, fellow wolves
johnw

[Brian Ellis]

I've said this before but I will say it again... how many of the named 'drops have been 'tested' in the sense of having a good number of years of growing in ordinary garden conditions to prove their worth, constitution and stability?  Precious few. 

That is surely the good thing about the monograph, details are given of when the plant was first found or introduced so it gives you some idea which are the good long-lasting plants.

[Paddy Tobin]

I have to agree with Maggi that, at present, we are experiencing a wave of hysterical interest in snowdrops. There are great profits to be made in feeding this hysteria and the introduction and production of newly named varieties is the commodity which provides these profits. Newly identified cultivars are, it seems to me, being bulked up in the fastest way possible, brought to flowering size as quickly as possible and then sold at as high a price as the market will bear. It is my belief that the methods of production are led by profit and not by a consideration of how best to produce a top-quality plant for the garden. Now, I am perfectly sure that such comments do not apply to all involved in the cultivation and sale of snowdrops and I am grateful for that.

Comments that a bulb will "settle down" and show its true characteristics after a few years in the garden or, worse, when the bulbs reach a mature size - people selling immature bulbs at high prices - surely indicate that snowdrops are being sold which are not fit for purpose and not true to description. What is that piece of consumer legislation called - Trades Description Act?

Of course, there is another side to this - there are hordes of people driving this trade, the people who are willing to seek out and spend large sums of money on these untried snowdrops. "Caveat emptor" still holds true.

Paddy

[Mavers]

I hope this mania doesn't spoil a delightful hobby.

'The love of money is the root of all sorts injurious things'

[Paddy Tobin]

I hope this mania doesn't spoil a delightful hobby.

'The love of money is the root of all sorts injurious things'

Oh, Mike, certainly not.

Above all else snowdrops to me are a constant reminder of kindness, generosity and great friendship. Financially, and being of a certain outlook, I cannot and will not spend vast amounts on snowdrops yet I have in my garden several of these much vaunted and highly expensive cultivars, given as gifts and treasured for their personal connections rather than their monetary value.

Paddy

[johnw]

I think we'd all agree with Maggi that a cultivar should be thoroughly tested before it's finally named and released. The Magnolia & Rhododendron worlds are plagued by the same problems.

johnw

[Mavers]

I now what you mean Paddy, the ones I treasure most have personal connections with snowdrop growing friends.

[Alan_b]

... how many of the named 'drops have been 'tested' in the sense of having a good number of years of growing in ordinary garden conditions to prove their worth, constitution and stability?  Precious few.  

Talking to Joe Sharman, my impression is that he keeps the parent bulb under observation whilst chipping/twin scaling the daughter bulbs.  That way he gets some idea of the constitution and stability whilst bulking up the numbers quite rapidly.  Of course his results only pertain to his own garden conditions, probably with frequent fungicide and insecticide treatments (which seem to be standard for nurseries).  Possibly he presumes that the chipped bulbs will perform identically to the parent.  But that must mean he has least one example under observation for at least four years before selling any.

Please note this is just conjecture on my part, based on a very brief conversation.  My point being, yes, new snowdrops are being brought to market very quickly but this does not have to preclude the due diligence of several years under observation.      

[Lesley Cox]

'The love of money is the root of all sorts injurious things'

My late mother always contended that it was the LACK of money rather than the love of it that was the root of aa good bit of evil.

John, re Magnolia 'Vulcan.' I'm sorry it isn't doing as it oughter in the north. I don't have it myself but there is a superb specimen along the road from me and I gaze in wonder at it every year. The climate throughout NZ seems to suit them really well, even the dry east coast though it and its fellow cultivars were bred in the wet of west coast North Island by the Juries, father and son. There's at least one now even closer to true red, can't remember its name. We buy them in the garden centres as grafted plants about a metre high or a bit more and already with buds. If treated reasonably well and kept well watered for the first year or two they just go on flowering regularly from birth, as it were. M. campbellii from germination to flowering takes only 8-10 years in NZ, around 25 I believe in the UK.