Peloponnese in autumn 2010

[Hillview croconut]

Hi Thomas, I think the colchicum clump is C. boissieri. I have found in growing in this area. Colchicum variegatum doesn't occur in the Peleponnese as far as I know and I have found C. sfikasianum in more lowland areas, especially down the Molai peninsula. Hope you enjoyed your trip. I will have to go one day when the bulbs are out in flower. I have only seen the high attitude spring flowerers. Wave after wave of crocus, scillas, corydalis and ornithogalums at the edge of the retreating snow.  Cheers, Marcus

[Thomas Huber]

Thanks Dave, Kris and Marcus for starting the Colchicum discussion. Meanwhile I took the time to have a look in my newly obtained AGS book 'Bulbs of Greece' (only received after returning from Greece  , many thanks to the friend who helped me obtaining it!) and found the following:

Colchicum variegatum doesn't grow in Peloponnese, only on the Aegean Island and Cyclades. The only other tesselated Colchicum flowering without leaves and dark anthers in the book is Colchicum macrophyllum - but this also isn't listed for
the Peloponnese - only Crete and Rhodes. From the photos I would say the plant from Taygetos (900m) IS C. macrophyllum, but it must be a so far unknown location. Kris it can't be C. sfikasianum, because this has yellow anthers.

Marcus, the dark clump from Areopolis is growing on 200 meters and the book says C. boissieri is growing from 700-1800 meters.
Apart from this boissieri has stoloniferous corms, which my plant doesn't have, AND my plant has small leaves visible at flowering time.
This would point for Colchicum peloponnesiacum, but this is only recorded from N + E Peloponnese (Argolis and Archaia).
Never mind, peloponnesiacum is the only autumn flowering Colchicum with leaves and yellow anthers so it seems that I again found a new location of this species.

I'm not a Colchicum specialist, all my notes above originate from the 'bulbs of Greece' by Grey-Wilson, so if anybody has new arguments regarding my Colchicum photos and thoughts, I would be grateful for your help.

Thanks DaveM for ID of the Campanula.

Tony G - one day you have to go there yourself and have a look at all these wonderful, different forms  

[I.S.]

 Thomas, I can imagine how pleasant to see all these nice plants in the samewhere! I seems that you had great trip
 Thank you very much that you show us all these beautyes. And took our minds over the Peleponnes montains.
 

[Thomas Huber]

Thanks Ibrahim, yes, it was a great trip. But I still envy you for the possibility
to visit the wonderful bulbous mountains in front of your housedoor allthrough the year.


Some more photos from my holiday - if you want  

42-45 - Allium ampelophrasum or commutatum or  bourgeaui ssp. cycladicum(??) on Mavrovouni beach, only a few meters from our hotel and the sea. In seed but the new leaves were already starting to grow, probably started by the rainfalls in the last days.

Although I only posted plants so far you have to remind, that this was NOT a plant holiday but a family holiday.
Even when the sky was cloudy we've been in the sea every day, but of course the best photos on the beach are made with sunshine - the first 'whole-day-long' sunshine took us 1 week to wait, but you can imagine that we really enjoyed the warm sunshine on 'our' 4km beach, where we have been nearly alone at this time of the year:
50 - Celine very lonesome but happy
90+120 - Celine, Thalia, Chris and Paris in the 25°C warm Mediterranean Sea

02+04 - Another lovely small Colchicum near Monemvassia on 400m, I think this is C. sfikasianum. But I have to wait until the leaves are out to be sure that it isn't C. lingulatum, which also grows in this area.
Generally lingulatum is smaller in appearance than sfikasianum but has more leaves.

The soil in this area was still bonedry - looked like there hasn't been any rain so far. Colchicum and Cyclamen were the only bulbs we found apart from millions of Allium ampelophrasum on the Monemvassia Island.

06+07 - Chris and Celine making lunch between thousands of Cyclamen graecum. They flowered in the open ground, completely unprotected from any shaders and obviously they really like it.

[Thomas Huber]

009 - The impressive and distinct rock island of Monemvassia
011 - After leaving Monemvassia we took the coast road northwards where Celine enjoyed the warm sea after teatime
015 - Urginea maritima in front of this beautiful scenery - looking a bit like the Italian Toscany

16-21 - Surprisingly we found Crocus niveus in this area North of Monemvassia on a northfacing slope between 300 and 800 meters - I had lost each hope to find any crocus this day due to the bonedry soil but again here they were. And again I discovered a surprising feature of the flowers. Croconuts - forget the picture of the 'standard' crocus niveus in your mind: Large white flowers with golden yellow centre. We found a population half and half white to blue with flowers only 10cm large and many of them had only a soft-yellow centre.
Some plants were even without any yellow in the middle. This time I have taken the Mathew bible before posting but Brian and also Christopher Grey-Wilson in 'bulb of Greece' only mention Crocus niveus as 'yellow-throated'.  
By the way: On a later journey I found Crocus niveus between 700 and 1200m, while both, Mathew and CGW, describe it as only growing up to 750m.

022+23 - This is the only population of Crocus goulimyi we found during our holiday, although we thought to find it everywhere.  But the longlasting drought seemed to expand their dormancy enormous this year  

[I.S.]

  Thomas, a very nice tranquil holiday all the beach belongs to you. I don't know but your that C. lingulatum looks a little difference from turkish C. lingulatum. Here my sample for this colchicum.

[TheOnionMan]

Some more photos from my holiday - if you want  

42-45 - Allium ampelophrasum (??) on Mavrovouni beach, only a few meters from our hotel and the sea.
           In seed but the new leaves were already starting to grow, probably started by the rainfalls in the last days.

Thomas, fantastic seeing plants in the wild, particularly the fall bulbs, finding new possible locales for Crocus & Colchicum species, and colonies showing greater diversity than normal... and doing all this while "on holiday" the family... imagine the advances you could make if on a botanic trip specifically

The Allium you showed could be A. ampeloprasum, but I rather suspect it might be the closely related A. commutatum (syn. Allium ampelosprasum var. commutatum), separated by very minor differences only discernible when the plants are in flower.

[Brian Ellis]

Very nice to see everything in its natural habitat Thomas, of course I was particularly interested in the Galanthus but also that fantastic carpet of Cyclamen graecum.  Amazing, thank you for sharing them with us

[Hillview croconut]

Hi Thomas

Ah Mavrovouni beach - I've stayed there many times and swam in that sea. One of my favourite spots but its a crazy place to get in and out of! Sorry I thought that clump of colchicum was in the Taygetos and not in the Mani. I have only found C. sfikasianum down further towards Porto Kagio, especially where the road cuts through from the south to the east of the cape. I have only found C. macrophyllum on Crete and on Rhodos and at present C. peleponnesiacum has only been recorded as you say around Diakofto. I have not seen this species but I believe it is of similar size to C. pusillum. Your plant looks much bigger. Colchicum psaridis has dark anthers and it is synatherous but it too has small flowers. C. cupanii has similar characteristics but its leaves are quite broad.

Did you go south of Monemvassia towards Agios Fokas?

Cheers, Marcus

[Thomas Huber]

  Thomas, a very nice tranquil holiday all the beach belongs to you. I don't know but your that C. lingulatum looks a little difference from turkish C. lingulatum. Here my sample for this colchicum.

Thanks for your comments, Ibrahim.
CGW describes C. lingulatum as 'pinkish/lilac, sometimes with the faintest tesselation'
and the photo in his book shows a plant that looks exactly like the one on my photo.
The Turkish form you show looks really different, but still nice.
Will update my comments in spring, when I see the leaves of my plant.

[Thomas Huber]

Thomas, fantastic seeing plants in the wild, particularly the fall bulbs, finding new possible locales for Crocus & Colchicum species, and colonies showing greater diversity than normal... and doing all this while "on holiday" the family... imagine the advances you could make if on a botanic trip specifically

The Allium you showed could be A. ampeloprasum, but I rather suspect it might be the closely related A. commutatum (syn. Allium ampelosprasum var. commutatum), separated by very minor differences only discernible when the plants are in flower.

Mark, I had hope, that you would help me with the Allium ID, many thanks. Do you think it's neccesary to classify A. commutatum as a different species if you consider that there are only 'very minor differences' in the flower of both?

Of course you might be right about the advances of a specific botanical trip, but I greatly enjoy the mix between family and botanic in my holidays  


Brian, most of my heart belongs to the genus Crocus but still there is a big (and getting bigger!) part of galanthophilia in me and I had lots of fun exploring the large Galanthus population I found by coincidence.

[TheOnionMan]

Mark, I had hope, that you would help me with the Allium ID, many thanks. Do you think it's neccesary to classify A. commutatum as a different species if you consider that there are only 'very minor differences' in the flower of both?

I defer to the authority, Brian Mathew, in his definitive monograph A Review of Allium section Allium, where A. commutatum is a good species, as it is in all other pertinent floras I've seen... it has a few detailed floral differences (albeit minor ones) that separate it from A. ampeloprasum, and yet another close ally, A. bourgeaui.  Taxonomic separation of many alliums will get down to a few minor differences.  Allium commutatum is a Mediterranean species found close to sea level (or up to 300 m) in habitats close to the sea and on islands.  There is also Allium bourgeaui ssp. cycladicum which is found in E. Peloponnese inhabiting similar low elevation locales.  The ID will remain a question until detailed inspection of plants in flower.

[Thomas Huber]

Hi Thomas

Ah Mavrovouni beach - I've stayed there many times and swam in that sea. One of my favourite spots but its a crazy place to get in and out of! Sorry I thought that clump of colchicum was in the Taygetos and not in the Mani. I have only found C. sfikasianum down further towards Porto Kagio, especially where the road cuts through from the south to the east of the cape. I have only found C. macrophyllum on Crete and on Rhodos and at present C. peleponnesiacum has only been recorded as you say around Diakofto. I have not seen this species but I believe it is of similar size to C. pusillum. Your plant looks much bigger. Colchicum psaridis has dark anthers and it is synatherous but it too has small flowers. C. cupanii has similar characteristics but its leaves are quite broad.

Did you go south of Monemvassia towards Agios Fokas?

Cheers, Marcus

Hi Marcus.
I have both, Colchicum pusillum and psaridis, and as you say my plant is much bigger than those two, so I conclude that both are not represented by the plant on my photo. The only colchicum with such small leaves described by CGW is still peloponnesiacum even if in another area.

I planed a trip to Cabo Melea / Agios Nikolaios south of Monemvassia, but didn't do it - remember: 'family-holiday'  

Where have you stayed in Mavrouvoni? Perhaps we had the same hotel? Will post photos later.

[David Nicholson]

Lovely pics Thomas. Looks as though your two little ones are growing up fast.

[Thomas Huber]

Yes, David, time goes by so fast  

No photos of the next two days. The first was another complete beach day, but during the night heavy thunderstorms started and didn't stop before the evening of the next day.

29 - but this evening we had the best sunset of our holiday
94 - later in the evening I caught a flash far in the distance from our balcony. You can see the wonderful Hotel Stavros Tou Notou only a few meters from the beach
010 - the next morning continued with the impressive sights on the beach of Mavrovouni with the best sunrise
023 - Mavrovouni beach is one of the prefered kindergardens for the sea turtle Caretta caretta. Each summer they come to lay their eggs in the sand of the public beach and enthusiastic Greeks people protect the stock in the way shown on this photo. Most of the babies are already hatched but a few still don't show sign of life - seems like the eggs have died in the sand  
033 - another view of our Hotel, built in Mani design

After the worst day of all some sunshine was forecasted and we decided to make a trip down South to Cabo Tenero and were greeted with lots of sunshine and the most beautiful landscape in the whole area - at least in my opinion.

46 - really for the last time - promised - Cyclamen graecum. May they rest in peace now  
47-49 - impressions from the Southern Mani peninsula
50 - view over Vathia gen North - isn't that 'to-die-for'  
53 - Scilla autumnalis growing directly behind the beach