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Author Topic: Gardenworthy cress - Cardamines  (Read 3942 times)

Hoy

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Re: Gardenworthy cress - Cardamines
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2011, 11:33:03 PM »
cohan, I grow my trifoliata with only some morning sun, the rest of the day it is in the shade of some shrubs.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2011, 09:07:57 AM by Hoy »
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Trond Hoy, gardening on the rainy west coast of Norway.

Lori S.

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Re: Gardenworthy cress - Cardamines
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2011, 11:44:52 PM »
My C. trifoliata is also shaded under a crabapple, no direct sun.  I wouldn't say the foliage is glaucous though - just green, really... quite evergreen, too.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2011, 12:55:17 AM by Lori Skulski »
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Lori
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Lori S.

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Re: Gardenworthy cress - Cardamines
« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2011, 11:58:57 PM »
Hmmm, I just realized that there is apparently both a C. trifoliata (native to Nepal, etc.) and a C. trifolia (native to N.A.  correction: Europe)... I have mine listed as the former, but now I wonder if that's correct.  I wonder what the differences are?  
« Last Edit: January 02, 2011, 12:58:46 AM by Lori Skulski »
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Lori
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Hoy

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Re: Gardenworthy cress - Cardamines
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2011, 12:16:14 AM »
Quote from: Lori Skulski on January 01, 2011, 11:58:57 PM
Hmmm, I just realized that there is apparently both a C. trifoliata (native to Nepal, etc.) and a C. trifolia (native to N.A.)... I have mine listed as the former, but now I wonder if that's correct.  I wonder what the differences are?  
No, I don't know, Lori. I just bought Stephens name from his picture but when I look into the matter I think I have C. trifolia (a European species?)! Have to go out tomorrow and look closer!
« Last Edit: January 02, 2011, 08:47:37 AM by Hoy »
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Trond Hoy, gardening on the rainy west coast of Norway.

cohan

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Re: Gardenworthy cress - Cardamines
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2011, 12:28:16 AM »
looks like that one would take more time to research than i am willing to devote to it! (or knowing the right places to look!)
a quick googling did not clear up the matter: google wanted me to always say 'trifolia' and image searches for both seem to have a lot of overlap
heronswood lists C trifolia, native to italy and balkans, height 6 inches; they don't say evergreen..
http://www.heronswood.com/perennials_cardamine/cardamine-trifolia/

edrom lists C trifoliata, 32.5-45 cm high, evergreen
http://www.edrom-nurseries.co.uk/shop/pc/Cardamine-trifoliata-35p7921.htm
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Lori S.

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Re: Gardenworthy cress - Cardamines
« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2011, 12:50:54 AM »
Oops, looks like I drew some erroneous conclusions from my quick look!  Yes, I see now that C. trifolia has a European range.  (I saw something about its use by settlers in the Appalachians that made me think, wrongly, that it was a native N. A. plant.)  That seems to be the one I have, based on the size (and probably on availability)... Some reports say it is evergreen, some not don't mention it.  
« Last Edit: January 02, 2011, 01:19:19 AM by Lori Skulski »
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Lori
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cohan

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Re: Gardenworthy cress - Cardamines
« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2011, 12:57:47 AM »
Quote from: Lori Skulski on January 02, 2011, 12:50:54 AM
Oops, looks like I drew some erroneous conclusions from my quick look!  Yes, I see now that C. trifolia has a European range.  (I saw something about its use by settlers in the Appalachians that made me think, wrongly, that it was a native N. A. plant.)  That seems to be the one I have, based on the size (and probably on availability)... Some reports say it is evergreen, some not. 

maybe with a wide range there are natural variations in its habit..
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Hoy

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Re: Gardenworthy cress - Cardamines
« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2011, 09:07:23 AM »
My plants are evergreen, that's a fact! Even the strong cold doesn't turn one leaf brown!
The New Royal Horticultural Society Dictionary of Gardening lists many cardamines but only one trifolia, not trifoliata.
Flowers of Himalaya by Adam Stainton mentions a few but neither trifolia or trifoliata.
Maybe trifoliata is a misnomer?
Here's my plant today!
« Last Edit: January 02, 2011, 09:10:08 AM by Hoy »
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Stephenb

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Re: Gardenworthy cress - Cardamines
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2011, 09:26:29 AM »
I discovered my error yesterday and had just come in to correct this and I see it's already discovered ;) I'm pretty sure it's C. trifolia, the Trifoliate Bittercress,  I have. It's noted in my Alpine flora as being found in moist woods and shady places, often on limestone to 1400m.

The other one (from the Himalayas) is, believe it or not, TRIFOLIOLATA (IPNI names database). Why that extra "OL"? Why not Trifolioliolioata? See also: http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/search?q=cardamine
« Last Edit: January 02, 2011, 09:38:57 AM by Stephenb »
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Stephen
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Hoy

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Re: Gardenworthy cress - Cardamines
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2011, 10:06:15 AM »
Ok, make sense, Stephen, but I can't find trifoliolata either in any of my books! That species can't be commonly grown!
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Trond Hoy, gardening on the rainy west coast of Norway.

Stephenb

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Re: Gardenworthy cress - Cardamines
« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2011, 10:22:27 AM »
No, I've never seen it.

It's in the Flora of China: http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200009348
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Stephen
Malvik, Norway
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Gerdk

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Re: Gardenworthy cress - Cardamines
« Reply #26 on: January 02, 2011, 12:04:09 PM »
Quote from: Stephenb on January 02, 2011, 09:26:29 AM
The other one (from the Himalayas) is, believe it or not, TRIFOLIOLATA (IPNI names database). Why that extra "OL"? Why not Trifolioliolioata? See also: http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/search?q=cardamine

If you have problems with ' trifoliotralala ' - why don't you use the Chinese name ? 

san xiao ye sui mi ji

not that difficult!      ;)

Gerd
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Stephenb

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Re: Gardenworthy cress - Cardamines
« Reply #27 on: January 02, 2011, 05:01:51 PM »
 :)

No problem, Gerd. I've recorded my rendering of the Chinese and you can hear it here:

http://tinyurl.com/3xevz85
(You will need to click on listen)

..and, yes, my voice hasn't broken yet... ;)

Did I pronounce it correctly?

« Last Edit: January 02, 2011, 05:05:53 PM by Stephenb »
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Stephen
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Age: Lower end of the 20-25,000 day range

Lori S.

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Re: Gardenworthy cress - Cardamines
« Reply #28 on: January 02, 2011, 05:16:05 PM »
Ah ha!  Thank you for explaining it, Gerd! 
I see that I was misled by this site, which looks like they got the range right but the name wrong ("trifoliata" when they evidently meant "trifoliolata"):
http://www.icimod.org/hkhconservationportal/Plant.aspx?ID=6816

Aside from that, it looks like "trifoliata" is used quite a lot (incorrectly, it seems) in reference to C. trifolia, as well!
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Lori
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cohan

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Re: Gardenworthy cress - Cardamines
« Reply #29 on: January 02, 2011, 10:50:56 PM »
interesting--so i wonder if the nursery link i posted above, with the larger species, is really trifoliolata? one of few carrying it, if so...
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