PLEIONE 2011

[Maren]

Isn't it rewarding to have a nice harvest like that? you have done very well, and the pseudobulbs look very healthy.

[karel_t]

Hi everybody.
Maren, Alex, Sempervivum - very nice flowers.
Graham, really good harvest
I add P. x lagenaria.
More of my just flowering plants you can see on my websites.
K.

[Graham Catlow]

Hi Karel,
Very nice P. x lagenaria. One of the remaining few species/natural hybrids on my wish list. I bought P. 'Confirmation' as a consolation as the true x lagenaria never seems to be on the market.

I like your Home page on your web-site but for some reason can't get into any of the other pages. The only tabs that work are the 'forum' and the 'contact' ones.

Graham

[Pascal B]

I bought P. 'Confirmation' as a consolation as the true x lagenaria never seems to be on the market.

The question is, how to tell the difference.... I know at least one nursery that sells P. x "Confirmation"  as P. x lagenaria because "the parents are the same".... Thusfar I have not found a single source that has a traceable line directly to the wild of this natural hybrid. I made an earlier post about the natural Pleione hybrids for reliable sources and none came up..... Pleione praecox occurs in NE India, China and Thailand. P. maculata the same. 3 possible origins of both parents makes 9 different outcomes for an artificial hybrid...., but only the wild hybrids resulting from the same regions can officially be called P. x lagenaria. For some people the natural hybrid and the man made hybrid are the same but taxonomically they definitely are not.

Edit: Maren posted some pictures of what Ian Butterfield grows under the names P. x lagenaria and P. x "Confirmation" here: http://www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=5994.15

At least for the "Confirmation" I know Ian has the right one as he got plants directly from the widow of Jan Berg (who made the hybrid). Maren, do you know if Ian's x lagenaria has a documented wild origin?

[Maren]

Maren, do you know if Ian's x lagenaria has a documented wild origin?

That's like looking for raindrops in the sand. But I'll ask him tomorrow.

I was going to see him anyway about a plant I bought from Wubben Orchids in Holland. This came from Jan Berg. It was labelled P x lagenaria, but knowing that Jan Berg made the cross, I guess its Confirmation.

[Maren]

Maren, do you know if Ian's x lagenaria has a documented wild origin?

That's like looking for raindrops in the sand. But I'll ask him tomorrow.

I was going to see him anyway about a plant I bought from Wubben Orchids in Holland. This came from Jan Berg. It was labelled P x lagenaria, but knowing that Jan Berg made the cross, I guess its Confirmation.

To me it's all the same, I just like the cross. I daresay a genuine P x lagenaria would probably be worth a bit more money, but it's unlikely that anyone could prove or disprove its authenticity. 

[Pascal B]

Maren, I know..., it was a long shot but I was hoping you could ask (sneaky I admit....)

Regarding the Wubben plant, no need to consult Ian because I was talking about that nursery in my earlier reply. I have had a rather "energetic" discussion about that name while I was there but the owner is a bit stubborn.... In his online pricelist he already notes P. x lagenaria = Conformation (so "Confirmation" mispelled). The plant you bought is pedigree P. x "Confirmation", not the wild hybrid. The owner of Wubben Orchids and the Berg family know each other very well. Unfortunately I don't know what the name "Confirmation" was applied to, a grex? Or a single clone/selection? And where the parents came from or how uniform the original cross was. I know for certain that the widow of Jan Berg send several P. x "Confirmation" to Ian because she told me herself.

Regarding genuine x lagenaria, I am just curious to know its history and introduction and would like to know if it actually is in cultivation or that people make a wild guess. And if introduced, what it exactly looks like. Sometimes in history plants are labeled with a specific name and then suddenly the real things pops up and is different (in this case I can't imagine much different). Lagenaria was originally described from Assam and I know the praecox from Assam are dark pink so I would expect any lagenaria from that area to have dark pink petals if the original introduction was done by the British shortly after its discovery. But because the natural hybrid can occur at any location where both parents grow side by side, a Chinese x lagenaria might look different to a Thai x lagenaria. So it is just curiosity, I am not really that keen on it to be honest.

[Paul Cumbleton]

Searching the RHS Orchid registration database shows that Jan Berg registered the name Confirmation as a grex name on 29 September 2003. The name therefore applies to the whole grex. He used maculata as the seed parent and praecox as the pollen parent. We know that he named at least one selection from the grex as the cultivar 'Tanned Beauty' which is a fabulous plant.

I think some nurserymen would use the name lagenaria rather than Confirmation simply because they know they are more likely to sell them that way. Either that, or they do not understand or care about the rules for nomenclature.

Paul

[Pascal B]

Thanx Paul. Maybe I can find out which country the parents of Confirmation came from but I guess Maren is right, if a seller (whether nursery or grower on E-bay) can't show a clear link to wild origin  it is terribly difficult to know which is which. Which basically means most of the wild hybrids on offer can't be trusted to be true, with the exception of perhaps most P. x barbarae..... For some it doesn't matter as long as it looks good but those that do care (like me) are at a loss here. Saves me money though....

[krisderaeymaeker]

I hope to have some flowers on this Pleione praecox within a few days . This pictures was from previous weekend and this weekend the buds already are much bigger.

[LarsB]

Pleione Praecox has opened. It's fragrant:





And Pleione Barcena:



Pleione Sangay's flower is a little dull

[Maren]

Lars, lovely show. Such a good idea to hang up the Barcena, it displays them to their advantage. The Sangay has a nice flower, but I understand your comment.

Mine are a little behind but I don't mind, more for later when there is nothing else to look at.

[karel_t]

Lars, that is the stunning band of autumn flowering plants. My maculatas and hybrids just develop the buds.
I add my P. Confirmations from Wubben nursery.
K.

[LarsB]

Beautiful Confirmation, Karel. There should be more maculata in the breeding of autumn flowering hybrids.

I love to have my plants hanging, both to get more space, but also to display them better.

[Paul Cumbleton]

Hi Lars,
It would indeed be nice to see maculata expressed more in hybrids. The problem is that it seems very reluctant to hybridize with other Pleiones. I wonder if it is a bit more genetically different than other Pleione?? I have tried well over 100 times to make crosses with it, but only 2 of these have been successful (maculata x grandiflora = Pleione Gelada and Piton x maculata = Pleione Marmoset).

Paul