YES!!! The "I'm So Happy!" thread - 2011

[arillady]

 

[fermi de Sousa]

Sounds like that one has transcended to the "Moan, Moan, Moan" category!
cheers
fermi

[Martin Baxendale]

Martin - this is my understanding of the latest version of the International Code (2009). See:

http://www.actahort.org/chronica/pdf/sh_10.pdf

A cultivar is defined solely in terms of characteristics - origin is deemed irrelevant.

You're right. Article 2.12 says you can raise seed of an established vegetatively-reproduced cultivar and give seedlings the name of the cultivar if the seedlings, or a selection from them, has one or more characteristics which are the same as the parent cultivar!! That seems an incredibly dodgy thing to suggest. It might be okay-ish if the decision is being made by responsible and experienced people being very rigorous in their assessment of the seedlings, and even then the principle is still arguable. But what happens if inexperienced individual gardeners with perhaps poor critical abilities start to slap cultivar names on seedlings of long-established cultivars which might to more experienced eyes bear little resemblance to the original? Not to mention unscrupulous growers intent on selling plants that aren't what the name suggests.

Looking at the examples given, I think the article must be intended to be applied to a limited number of cultivars which, unusually, do regularly give a few seedlings (I note that the article states from open pollination, not selfing) that are virtually indistinguishable morphologically from the parent cultivar even though they're not genetically identical. I'm not sure that it's meant to apply to seedlings from ANY named cultivar. But that doesn't seem to be made very clear and can certainly appear to a gardener to give carte blanche to anyone wanting to slap an established cultivar name onto any seedling they think looks a bit like the parent. Seems quite dangerous to me.

I know I'd be annoyed if I raised a superb new snowdrop, named it, and later found that someone else had raised inferior seedlings from it and given them the same name, whether out of poor judgement or deliberate mis-representation, using this article of the code as justification.

[arillady]

Oh dear we did open a can of worms here.

[daveyp1970]

Martin - this is my understanding of the latest version of the International Code (2009). See:

http://www.actahort.org/chronica/pdf/sh_10.pdf

A cultivar is defined solely in terms of characteristics - origin is deemed irrelevant.

You're right. Article 2.12 says you can raise seed of an established vegetatively-reproduced cultivar and give seedlings the name of the cultivar if the seedlings, or a selection from them, has one or more characteristics which are the same as the parent cultivar!! That seems an incredibly dodgy thing to suggest. It might be okay-ish if the decision is being made by responsible and experienced people being very rigorous in their assessment of the seedlings, and even then the principle is still arguable. But what happens if inexperienced individual gardeners with perhaps poor critical abilities start to slap cultivar names on seedlings of long-established cultivars which might to more experienced eyes bear little resemblance to the original? Not to mention unscrupulous growers intent on selling plants that aren't what the name suggests.

Looking at the examples given, I think the article must be intended to be applied to a limited number of cultivars which, unusually, do regularly give a few seedlings (I note that the article states from open pollination, not selfing) that are virtually indistinguishable morphologically from the parent cultivar even though they're not genetically identical. I'm not sure that it's meant to apply to seedlings from ANY named cultivar. But that doesn't seem to be made very clear and can certainly appear to a gardener to give carte blanche to anyone wanting to slap an established cultivar name onto any seedling they think looks a bit like the parent. Seems quite dangerous to me.

I know I'd be annoyed if I raised a superb new snowdrop, named it, and later found that someone else had raised inferior seedlings from it and given them the same name, whether out of poor judgement or deliberate mis-representation, using this article of the code as justification.

And therein is the problem with that article,people will get out of it what they want,so to suit themselves,i was waiting for a galanthophile to comment on it.

[Gerry Webster]

Martin - I agree it seems dodgy for all the reasons you give.

[annew]

This daffanatic thinks so too. Even if seedlings look alike, they can be very different in, for instance, vigour or rate of increase or disease resistance.

[annew]

I am happy though. I'm potting up chipped snowdrops and narcissus and most have done very well, including one cultivar that up until now has resisted all my attempts to propagate it. 

[arilnut]

Hello friends.  I took an account of the Onco's putting out fall growth last saturday and am pretty happy.
Here are the ones bought or traded for. Next post will be seedlings.

John B

Species                                         # of fans

Lycotis                                           2
Paradoxa Sevan                              3
Gatesii                                           1
Paradoxa                                        2
Susiana  ??                                    2
Elegantissima                                 3
Elegantssima                                 1
Elegantissima                                 5
Gatesii                                           6
Damascena                                    2
Sari                                               3
Choschab                                       1
Lycotis                                           1
Elegantissima                                1
Barnumae                                      7
Elegantissima                                2
Lycotis                                          1
Barnumae protonyma                      1
Atropurpurea                                  3
Elegantissima                                2
Urmiensis                                      1
Kirkwoodii                                      2

[arilnut]

And here are my Onco seedlings growing now.

John B

Species                                    year germinated                                                                 # of fans

Sofarana kasruwana                            2007                                                                             2
Barnumae                                           2007                                                                             3
Elegantissima                                     2007                                                                             4
Paradoxa                                            2008                                                                             1
Paradoxa                                            2008                                                                             3
Paradoxa                                            2008                                                                             5
Paradoxa                                            2008                                                                             5
Paradoxa                                            2009                                                                             2
Urmiensis                                           2009                                                                             5
Urmiensis                                           2009                                                                             1
Urmiensis                                           2009                                                                             1
Sari                                                   2009                                                                             1
Kirkwoodii calcarea                             2009                                                                             1
Kiekwoodii                                         2009                                                                              1
Paradoxa atrata                                  2010                                                                              1
Paradoxa atrata                                  2010                                                                              1
Paradoxa atrata                                  2010                                                                              1
And some Onco hybrids
Acutiloba  X  Choschab                       2009                                                                              9
Acutiloba  X  Choschab                       2009                                                                              2
Dardanus  X  Choschab                       2009                                                                              1
Dardanus  X  Choschab                       2009                                                                              1

[arillady]

You must be very happy indeed John.

[Maggi Young]

Quite a list there, John..... 'reasons to be cheerful', eh?! 

[David Nicholson]

For your delectation a little bit of Jackson Browne. Wish I could play like him. Just wish I could play

[ranunculus]

For your delectation a little bit of Jackson Browne. Wish I could play like him. Just wish I could play

You are preaching to the converted, David!   

[Lesley Cox]

You are indeed David and this one is not about to be converted.

Yesterday at the market we had a string quartet busking. All uni music students I think. Many people said they were the best buskers we'd ever had (up to 10 or so on any morning) and they literally had a violin case full of $5 and $10 notes and a few $20s as well, Many, many gold coins. I was delighted to see very young children absoluely enthralled by the players. A good way to introduce children to the world of classical music.