Moan, Moan, Moan - 2011

[Lesley Cox]

I can't believe the cost of healthcare insurance in the US Mark though I know full cover is very expensive here too. Most people except those I would term as wealthy, just don't have cover at all. No-one misses out on healthcare but if not insured we usually have to go on a waiting list for what is termed "elective" surgery, such as orthopaedic etc where you may be in hideous pain but aren't going to die from it. I have to say though, that in a real emergency like my perforated ulcer in 2009, everything happens at top speed and without compromise, thankfully.

Not sure what the "official" poverty level is here. The average wage is around $45,000 I think. Mine is way under half that.

[Tony Willis]

Mark

I am really sorry to hear of your experience and hope the future is better.

I was going to make a political comment  but feel such things are better left alone.

[TheOnionMan]

Yup, the cost of healthcare insurance is through the roof here, and rises dramatically each year, as does deductibles, plus more restrictions about what's covered, etc.  One of the quiet crisis situations among a particular demographic, are young people just graduated from college who find themselves in a situation where they can't find work, or only get part time work without benefits, thus have no healthcare.  Traditionally here, once they're of certain age, (21 or 22, and graduated from college) they can no longer be covered under a parent's healthcare plan, they must get their own.  One item that President Obama put into place, is coverage for young family members up to age 26, which I think is terrific. 

Perhaps you've heard the noise from a certain supremely dufus population here who believe this new benefit is an outrage, or that any safeguards or improvements in healthcare legislation is tantamount to an evil socialist government take-over

@Tony:  I think you're wise to refrain from political comments, it is taking every inch of personal fortitude here not to scream about the political atmosphere here.

@Leslie:  but without healthcare, aren't people at risk of getting seriously ill and losing their life savings?  In the US, it is a sad state of affairs that most home foreclosures (of which there has been record numbers the last 2 years), bankruptcy, and complete loss of life savings, if from people losing a job then losing healthcare then coming down with a serious disease or illness, where the exorbitant medical costs wipes them out.

@Martin:  you're a man of few words

[johnw]

No-one misses out on healthcare but if not insured we usually have to go on a waiting list for what is termed "elective" surgery, such as orthopaedic etc where you may be in hideous pain but aren't going to die from it.

Lesley - Do you mean you can get a replacement faster if you have extra - i.e. private - health insurance in NZ? I though NZ was like NS where all hospital stays, surgeries and health care  - excluding dental, diabetic supllies (that one is a puzzle), corn/wart-removal and cosmetic - are covered by our government health insurance. I don't believe we can jump the queque for replacements or other procedures with extra insurance.  Country-wide we have a max wait limit for replacements, well at least on paper in NS; if emerg then things work very well.  I pay $90 month for two for extra coverage - covers 80% of drugs and most dental, trip home if out of country + full drug/health coverage out of country. Once a senior the government charges $424/yr for all drugs/vaccines etc. but you can get it free if you make under a certain amount per year.

Mark $18,000 a year is unbelievable and scandalous.  I hope you can at least write-it off as we do with the $90/mo and the 20% drug charge? I had a friend in Va. whose husband racked up $100,000 hospital bill in 2 weeks and that was in 1975!

johnw

[Martin Baxendale]

@Tony:  I think you're wise to refrain from political comments, it is taking every inch of personal fortitude here not to scream about the political atmosphere here.

@Martin:  you're a man of few words

I was trying to post to say I'd de-politicised my comment, in the interests of forum harmony, but had an editing glitch.

[johnw]

One of the dufae might be one Ms. Palin who painted the Canadian health coverage as that of pinko-socialists and later admitted to sneaking across the border into Alberta for treatment.  I doubt if we were able to find a cerebral match.  I stop here.    Promise.

johnw

[Lesley Cox]

@Leslie:  but without healthcare, aren't people at risk of getting seriously ill and losing their life savings?  In the US, it is a sad state of affairs that most home foreclosures (of which there has been record numbers the last 2 years), bankruptcy, and complete loss of life savings, if from people losing a job then losing healthcare then coming down with a serious disease or illness, where the exorbitant medical costs wipes them out.

No Mark because like the UK we have a universal availability to healthcare regardless of personal circumstances. If one has insurance one can recoup the (quite small) costs of doctor visits, prescriptions etc and can also get hospital treatment more or less on call. Without insurance one may have to be part of a waiting list but it still happens within a safety margin of time and all hospital treatment or surgery etc is absolutely free to all NZers, also to Australians and Brits visiting because of reciprocal arrangements. Prescriptions are not more than $3 per item and free after so many items per year for the rest of that year. We (Roger and I) have no medical or health insurance at all, can't afford it, so Roger's ankle surgery was waited for, for about 4 months but didn't cost a bean. My ulcer surgery was done with an hour of diagnosis and likewise, with 10 days in hospital and an angiogram as well, didn't cost anything at all. A visit to the doctor is free for 6 year olds and under and depending on the health centre one attends, can be from about $20 to $65 for adults. However, beneficiaries have what is called a Community services card which entitles them to heavily subsidised doctor visits. Procedures such as angiograms, any kinds of scans, ultrasounds etc etc cost nothing at public hospitals. Private hospitals will charge but are used mostly by those with good insurance.

[Lesley Cox]

Our national health coverage though, covers neither optometrists nor dentistry. So insurance is a good option there. Many poorer people do without either, to their detriment. We in Dunedin are extremely fortunate in that NZ's only dental school is here and the students use the public for their learning. The standard is extremely high and costs about 1/10th of what the same work would cost from a fully qualified dentist. I go there myself. I think they charge only to cover materials.

[johnw]

Our national health coverage though, covers neither optometrists nor dentistry. So insurance is a good option there. Many poorer people do without either, to their detriment. We in Dunedin are extremely fortunate in that NZ's only dental school is here and the students use the public for their learning. The standard is extremely high and costs about 1/10th of what the same work would cost from a fully qualified dentist. I go there myself. I think they charge only to cover materials.

Lesley - I'm surprised you have to pay for doctor visits as there is no charge here and we can go to the doctor of our choice.  No optometry coverage here either unless you are in a high risk group like diabetics.  We too are lucky to have a large university dental school just round the corner and the costs are minimal  but I go to a dentist who obviously is doing major house renovations.  I'm implant & crown poor these days and so have to forego a snowdrop or two. 

johnw

[TheOnionMan]

Thanks Leslie, the healthcare system in NZ seems awesome, I hear the same said about Canada.  If one has good healthcare insurance, as I do, then most everything is covered... but ONLY if you actually have bought the expensive insurance coverage, paid for out of pocket and partially by one's employer.  Four years ago I landed in the hospital for 3 days with kidney stones, my insurance covered everything except my $100 emergency room co-payment, not bad.  The insurance company still sends a statement of services covered, and I was shocked to see to see my bill (with $0 due) was $26,000 for those 3 days.  What would 2 weeks in the hospital cost, about $120,000 dollars; enough to bankrupt some families.

John, you wrote: "$18,000 a year is unbelievable and scandalous."  Couldn't agree more.  Even though I'm unemployed, the State of Massachusetts has a benefit whereby I can maintain my "group healthcare coverage" from my previous employer, and the State pays 2/3 of the cost for up to 15 months... my last month of this benefit ends March 2011, then I get to pay the whole thing.  Not only that, I will no longer have the benefit of "group negotiated" health care cost (like that really helped here), I will have to buy it as an individual family, at problably 25-30% more than the $18,600 annual cost now + will be subject to much higher deductable of $500 or $1000 for certain items.

The system is very broken here.  Very good health care itself, but only if one can afford the insurance. 

[addenda:  just noticed, this was my 2000th SRGC post ]

[angie]

Mark just caught up with your posts. Thought my problem was bad but after reading everyone coments and about the horrible way that you have been treated makes me mad. I hope that you soon will get a job and a wirthwhile one at that. It's not good everywhere by the sounds of things.
Anyway Mark congratulations that you have marked up 2000 posts. I can say that I enjoy reading what you have to say. Keep smiling you are among friends here.

Angie

[Maggi Young]

While we can all empathise with the problems of unemployment, we in the UK are so fortunate not to have to worry at such a stressful time about the possible impact of health problems to our family hitting us in the way Mark describes.
We can only imagine- with horror- the fear it must engender that a family member should fall ill in such circumstances.  That's a stress that no-one needs.

So, in addition to my good wishes for a new job, McMark, I wish you and all your family the very best of health.

[TC]

 I just cannot understand the USA.  Surely the health of a country's population should be the number one priority for any Government and not be left to the size of your wallet.
I would not swop our NHS sevice for a private insurance scheme.  Last year I had a good reason to be thankful for thr NHS service. After a routine test, my wife was called back for some more tests and x-rays, and then a meeting with the Consultant. Two days later she was in hospital, operated on, then more biopsies, back in again for more operations and then 18 weeks of chemotherapy.  The treatment and aftercare could not have been bettered at any private clinic.
The cost to us including followup prescription drugs - zero. I have never minded paying tax and National Insurance for a system like this.  Insurance schemes are calculated to make money for the companies who sell the policies.

[Darren]

I agree Tom,

As a relatively healthy couple without children we are probably, so far, paying far more into the system than we get out but I don't begrudge any of it. The NHS does a fantastic job.

Mark - I echo everybody else's messages of commiseration and really hope things pick up for you soon.

[Lesley Cox]

If, say, an elderly man living on the streets and obviously without either job or insurance becomes ill suddenly, here he would be taken to hospital and treated appropriately. What happens in the USA? Is he just left on the street to die? I know there are some proposed improvements which have made Obama unpopular with the rich and greedy but how can the Republicans in all conscience oppose them? From what I read in Time magazine, they are only partial and will take many years to roll out anyway.