Moan, Moan, Moan - 2011

[Paul T]

Lesley,

From what I've heard, he would be left on the streets to die.  I couldn't believe it when I heard it, and I hope that McMark will tell us it isn't true.  Our system here in Aus isn't as good as yours by the sound of it, but compared to McMark's it appears to be much safer.

McMark,

Commiserations on the job problems.  I can empathise to a degree as I was ill for a number of years and was unable to work, then had to try to get back into work after that with a 7 year gap in my resume.  Thankfully my horticultural knowledge got me a foot in the door.   I've sent you a PM as well.

I can only wish you all the best, and hope that it all works out.  All the VERY best for future opportunities. Hopefully we'll hear good news in the near future.

Take care,

[alpines]

No he would NOT be left on the street to die.
Do the hospitals and clinics ask for your Insurance Card as soon as they see you? Yes they do. Would they refuse to treat you if you were dying. No they wouldn't.
I have seen the benefits and non-benefits of both sides of the health systems in the UK and the USA. Sherba has worked for both health systems. They both have their good points and they both have their bad points.
Before I came to the USA I had never had a colonoscopy, a prostate test or a kidney scan in the UK. Never been offered one, never asked for one. As soon as I came here, I was sent for all three...and without going into details, oh boy was I glad.
The USA is very proactive in treating patients.(Let's try and stop you getting anything so we don't have to treat it)  the UK is very reactive.(Oh dear...you've got something.....well you're going to get the very best treatment to get rid of it....if you've got enough time left).
There will never be a perfect health system anywhere in this world because it costs money and money doesn't grow on trees. but to suggest people are left on the streets to die in the USA is absurd.

[Tony Willis]

Alan

are you saying that anybody without health insurance is offered all these preventative treatments as routine?

I agree with Tom and Darren the NHS is excellent .

[Martin Baxendale]

As far as I'm aware, you'd only get all those preventive procedures if you have health insurance. And if you get ill or have an accident without health insurance then you're very restricted in where you can go - usually only to a charitable foundation-type hospital where you effectively get free health care as a charitable act, not a right, and where the staff are usually swamped and overworked in pretty poor, not very well funded conditions. If you're dying then I imagine you might get emergency treatment at any nearby hospital but as soon as possible, and certainly if your stabliised and not bleeding to death I think they boot you over to a free charity hospital somewhere.

I think one of the big arguments in the US against private health insurance is that health provision based on insurance costs more than an nationalised system because the insurance companies make huge profits out of providing the insurance, so you have the cost of the health care provision and then the cost of the insurance companies' massive profits on top.

The main argument for private health insurance seems to be that a national health system paid for by progressive taxation would instantly turn the US into a socialist state. Yet so many other public services are funded from taxation without the Red Flag flying over the White House. Then again, there do seem to be a surprising number of people in the US who don't think anything should be funded from taxation.

[alpines]

Alan

are you saying that anybody without health insurance is offered all these preventative treatments as routine?

No Tony....like everything else, you get what you pay for. What I am saying is that nobody would be refused emergency, life-threatening treatment if they didn't have insurance, and the thought of folks on this forum thinking that the USA would let you "rot where you drop" needed defending. Many people on this side of the pond are misled into thinking that the NHS is a freebie. Having paid into it for 40 years, it is no more free than the private insurance I have over here. It is structured differently but it is certainly not free. I am very fortunate that I am employed and have a subsidy from my employer which enables me to make a much reduced contribution for an excellent policy, and I might add, excellent health providers.
This is a very emotive topic, not helped by people on either side having little or no comprehension about each others systems, and relying on hearsay to make judgements.
Which country would I prefer to have medical treatment in? I would hope I never have the need to make the decision.
Do I prefer proactive investigation to reactive treatment? Yes I do.
Would I like to get top quality medical care without having to pay for it? Yes I would.
....but then I'd like to be able to grow Asiatic primulas in Kentucky and that isn't going to happen either.

[Lesley Cox]

Well Alan, that's the thing. I have very little comprehension of the US system and only wanted some clarification. I'm pleased that you've clarified that particular impression, gained, mostly from Time magazine and a long article about the laws Obama had put in place, not to eveyone's satisfaction.

[Paul T]

Alan,

I am REALLY glad to hear that what I'd heard was wrong.  That impression had more come from American TV shows, magazines, media reports etc.  I wasn't just trying to be obnoxious, it is the impression that much of the media seems to give, and I am including the American media here, not just the Australian.  We get a LOT of US shows, news coverage, etc, so much of what I've gone from has come from within the US I think, not just from biased foreign commentators (if you know what I mean).  I am really pleased to be wrong.... very much so.

Thanks heaps for letting us know.

[Martin Baxendale]

I have to say I still prefer the notion of universal state-funded healthcare for everyone rather than a two-tier or multi-tier system with the very best healthcare for those who can afford it and varying degrees of not-so-wonderful healthcare for those who can't. But yes please to more preventative medicine, and I have to agree that even our beloved NHS could be greatly improved. Maybe if we spent a tad less on stuff like nuclear subs and wars of dubious legality then we could have more of the kind of preventive screening procedures that Alan describes.

[alpines]

Lesley, Paul, Martin,

I try not to get too emotional about these things but I felt there was a need to clarify the situation "as I see it". I am sure there are those in the USA who will vehemently disagree with me. There are those who are far less blessed than I am for whom the system is far from perfect, and yes, there are those who suffer because of their financial circumstances. It is a far from ideal system and needs radical reform. I just wanted to dispel the myth that pervades throughout the UK (and yes, before I knew Sherba I probably had the same misconceptions) that no insurance means no treatment.
Stay healthy Folks
Alan

[Lesley Cox]

We do have a good few proactive measures available if one wishes. For instance there are national screening programmes for various cancers and other things and children in schools get automatic free hearing tests and the like. Dentistry in schools is free until age 16 I think, so perhaps we have the best of both worlds here. Part of NZ's problem is that a poplution of just 4 & 1/4 million still demands all the latest and best that technology has to offer and that can be provided by countries with much larger populations. But we are at the forefront in many areas of medical research too.

[Maggi Young]

Moan? Moi?
Oh well, alright then, just a little one.... I've just heard from Diane C.... telling me how nice and sunny it is in Spain and how there is  lots of lovely rosemary and lavendula denata to scent the air........
So cold here my fingers are frozen and outside there's a fierce wind giving a nasty chill factor and Diane messages me to say it's sunny and fragrant ..   flippin' holiday makers! If I didn't know she really  deserves a break from all her work both employment and voluntary, I'd cut her off my virtual Christmas card list


 And I know I hate holidays... but it's different when you're freezing and your pals are somewhere warm!! 

[Luc Gilgemyn]

It's been chilly over here as well over the last few days Maggi : 3-4°C - fog - sleet - dark and grey .... bweuk... all has come to a standstill in the garden.
Crocusses unopened since 4-5 days...    No change anounced... 

[angie]

It's been chilly over here as well over the last few days Maggi : 3-4°C - fog - sleet - dark and grey .... bweuk... all has come to a standstill in the garden.
Crocusses unopened since 4-5 days...    No change anounced... 

Luc glad to hear that we aren't the only place that's miserable. Like Maggi said it's horrible here. Had to clean my pond filter today as it started to overflow, fingers too were frozen. I have forgotten what the sun looks and feels like. 

Angie

[Michael J Campbell]

Wall to wall sunshine here all day, 14c and no wind,  working in the garden in shirt sleeves.

[Maggi Young]

Wall to wall sunshine here all day, 14c and no wind,  working in the garden in shirt sleeves.

 Luc, Angie, just ignore Michael, he's trying to upset us..... let him be.... I saw a weather forecast that showed he'll need chest waders before the week is out!