Moan, Moan, Moan - 2011

[Martin Baxendale]

I see Lesley hasn't been active on the forum for very nearly 24 hours, which is unusual and I hope means she's gone into hospital for tests (and not that she's had further problems). Fingers crossed, and hope someone hears something positive and encouraging from her soon.

[mark smyth]

Not wanting to take away from Lesley's health ....

My tearaway niece has announced she is pregnant which left her mum and dad in tears. She only goes to work when they need her and her boyfriend works only 20 hours per week at Burger King. They're living with his grandmother.

[Martin Baxendale]

Not wanting to take away from Lesley's health ....

My tearaway niece has announced she is pregnant which left her mum and dad in tears. She only goes to work when they need her and her boyfriend works only 20 hours per week at Burger King. They're living with his grandmother.

It's an all-too-familiar story, but a sad one nonetheless. In the long term, and both generally and specifically speaking, the answer is education. And by education, I mean no-expense-spared education for all, not just the privileged few, and education that doesn't just train people to work (if they're lucky) but also equips people with a wide range of essential life skills, including an ability to think for themselves, think critically and think constructively. It's a lot to ask of an educational system, but it's what children deserve. Unfortunately it's something they seldom get. Here endeth today's sermon. Sorry, working late and feeling bolshy. 

[Anthony Darby]

I agree Martin. A couple of years ago I attended a parents' meeting at the local high school about revising the teaching of health education, which included "the facts of life". There were two women there who were trying to bully the local schools (including the three primary schools) into dropping it, saying it was "the parents' responsibility". One of the women was a grandmother who didn't live in the town and had never had any of her children or grandchildren at the school. The other was a mother, also not from Dunblane, who's  numerous (7) children were there on placing requests (instead of being sent to the nearest, or the local RC school). There is no person at home employed, and they live in a brand new semi knocked into one, given to them by the council, which had upset the neighbours. The children are even withdrawn from national certificate classes when human biology is being taught. I just hope the children can adjust! As for parents' responsibility. If you listen to what some kids learn from their parents or behind the bike sheds perceived knowledge hasn't changed since the dark ages. One of my former colleagues used to work on a farm down near Campbelltown during his school holidays. He was in the local pub with three of his farmer friends. One was saying that he and his wife had been trying for a family for quite a while without success. I won't go into details, but suffice it to say, the two farm hands offered a suggestion which made my colleague laugh out loud. They turned on him saying "what do you know? You're not married!". The depth of their ignorance was, apparently, clearly, flabbergasting! Parents' responsibility! Many parents haven't a clue and many, whether they are clued up or not, are too embarrassed or otherwise to speak to their children. There are too many old wives tales that people still actually believe with obvious consequences!  For instance, more that one child has been immaculately conceived, as another of my (married - but not at the time) colleagues found out!

[David Nicholson]

I'm not sure how far the problem is one of education alone rather than a reflection of the lowered perceptions of the place of "family" in society as a whole?  I don't want to upset the teachers amongst us, though I possibly shall, but I do wonder if they are really the ones who are best equipped to try to replace what used to be family related issues. Having said that, if they don't who will?

I worked with teachers over most of my working life and found many of them, particularly those engaged in pre-tertiary education, to be fairly innocent of the reality of the workings of society and the world. Maybe this had something to do with their lack of experience of the real world as they proceeded from school to university/teacher training and then, as it were, back to school again. Having said that I did come across some fairly naive beings in the tertiary sector too.

I well remember that when we first moved to Devon, with a fairly bright son (later to get a first in Politics) who seemed, at his new school to be making good progress in sheep identification but going backwards in his maths. Ah,  they said when I raised this with teacher training professionals over coffee, when the National Curriculum comes in this will even out the blips you are experiencing. It hasn't though, has it. It's simply left out the "added value" that used to be part of the educational process and that has caused a knock-on effect in the way that society works now.

Lots of words and lots of "spin" but nothing on the ground. I don't know how to change it and it can only get worse.

Back to the flowers

[David Nicholson]

A Devon summer.

Got into the car this morning with heavy mist and drizzle and the temperature gauge showing 14C to go to Exeter (yet more shoes needed!).

Arrived at the park and ride just outside Exeter, a journey of around 36 miles, blue sky, sunny, temperature gauge 25C.

Back to the car park, many shoe shops visited-no suitable shoes - temperature gauge 32C.

Arrived back home, heavy mist and drizzle and temperature gauge showing 16C.

Bet it was nice in Yorkshire today!

[Martin Baxendale]

No, it's obviously not purely a problem of education. I was being a bit simplistic. But the education system seems to be the main (possibly only) place we have where a well-meaning society can (especially if started early) seriously hope to influence things and try to break the repeating cycles (behavioural cycles, cycles of poverty, ignorance, lack of self-worth, etc) that end up blighting so many lives. It may sound political and controversial to some, but one thing I feel strongly should be done is for private schools to lose their charitable status, which is basically a huge tax break for the privileged, and the extra tax income thus generated should be used (along with whatever else it takes financially from other taxation - including extra taxation of huge bankers' bonuses) to help to raise education for all children to the privileged level of the best paid-for private education.

[alpines]

one thing I feel strongly should be done is for private schools to lose their charitable status, which is basically a huge tax break for the privileged, and the extra tax income thus generated should be used (along with whatever else it takes financially from other taxation - including extra taxation of huge bankers' bonuses) to help to raise education for all children to the privileged level of the best paid-for private education.

Well this is a very thought provoking thread and an interesting comment from Martin but it assumes that extra funding for "underprivileged" children will somehow make them amenable to actually learning. I would take issue with the fact that ALL those who come from a low socio-economic background are the culprits. There are many privileged children who believe the world owes them a living, and many low income children who take up the challenge of bettering themselves. Education, discipline and responsibility begins at home and should be supported throughout the formative years in schools. It is the lack of responsibility and respect for one's self that brings out the worst in people. I, as I am sure many people on this forum do,  come from an honest, working class family. Low income does not necessarily mean low educational standards. The original posting on this matter relates to a lack of responsibility on the part of the two individuals. It has nothing to do with family values or education. IMHO.

[Lesley Cox]

Right, well I couldn't stand the bullying any longer so on Friday night went to emergency clinic in town and they had me into hospital quickly for a scan. I don't know the results yet but am to go to the hospital again tomorrow morning (Monday). At 11.42am yesterday John (Saturday) I was working at the market and felt fine as I still do, though a bit headachy. Anyway, I can't thank you all enough for your very kindly concerns. I'll let you know what happens. As Ian said on the Bulblog thread, the Forumists are a wonderful and caring bunch of real friends...or words to that effect. I can endorse that to the max.

Martin I rarely am on the Forum from Friday night through to Sunday morning, because of the work mentioned above, I start at 6am (up at 4.30) and am so bushed when I get home around 2.15pm that I spend the rest of the day on the sofa with small dog and book, while Roger makes cups of tea. The work is, in most parts, very physical and I don't know if my knees and back will take a lot more but I go on as long as possible for the same reason everyone goes to work, paying the bills.

[Maggi Young]

This is good news, Lesley... better safe than sorry... hope the scan proves clear.

I'm not a great one for doctors but sometimes it just is necessary ! Well done for taking action.  

 I'll relax and go to bed now 

[Lesley Cox]

Lesley, glad the snowdrop seeds arrived okay. Hope they germinate okay for you. Give them a good soak after sowing and don't let them dry out completely for prolonged periods and hopefully they should be okay. Not sure how they'll respond to your winter cold without a warm, moist summer first. Maybe the cold will make them germinate in your spring without a warm summer period. Be interesting to hear what happens, so please let me know. Presumably you had the same situation with Hubi's galanthus nivalis seed arriving in your autumn/winter. What happened there? Did they germinate the next spring, or did you have to wait a full year or more? And what about my corydalis seed? When did that germinate? Interested to know how sowing followed by immediate cold affects bulb seed germination.
quote/]


Martin, Hubi's galanthus seed took an extra year so apparently needed the winter cold. But when it DID come up, it was like hairs on Teddy's back, very thick and prolific so I expect that will happen with yours too. It seems that so far at least, this winter is to be a mild one, as was last year's.

On the other hand, the Corydalis seed started to come up after just a month and was well away after 3. A few more have come up in the second year (3 now, isn't it?) and some have flowered, mostly nice pinks, pink and whites, and a few lavenders.

[Lesley Cox]

Not sure what I did wrong there to have the post included in the quote. No matter.

[Martin Baxendale]

Good to hear you're okay, Lesley. Hope the scan shows nothing serious. The bullying had to be done though. 

[Anthony Darby]

Good luck with your WOF Lesley. Better safe than sorry.

[Lesley Cox]

Which reminds me that my car is due for one too.