Germinating now- - photos of seedlings

[Yann]

Early september i tried to cut my paeonies seeds on both sides, 0.5mm with a cutter.
Today i checked the pots, almost all are already rooting.

[Leena]

Yann, nice root forming:). I think P.veitchii is one which is easy to start making root in warm two to three months in warm. I put fresh P.veitchii seeds in vermiculite in zip log bag in early September and they have also made root now (without cutting or anything like that). I let the root grow a little more (maybe 3-4 cm), before I pot the seeds and put them in cold, and then they make first leaves in spring.

[Yann]

I tried on common species before extending the technic to rare ones. P. corsica also germinate in 3 weeks versus 2-3 years with mixed percentage of germination.

[Steve Garvie]

What is the procedure? Do you soak the seed first and which bit of the seed do you cut?

[Véronique Macrelle]

you use the same principle as on the onco?https://www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=6450.0
do we have to start the embryo or not? in a more or less sterile environment?
onco: 1 seed out of 4 germs, the others may not have been cut enough or too much
 I wondered if we could do that with the big clematis seeds too.
 when I was young, I did this on Opuntia seeds, but without breaking into the embryo.

[Yann]

It almost the same technic, i just cut 1-1.5mm on the top of the seed, both sides. Cutting paeonies seeds is often used in China to improve germination of herbaceous paeonies. I wanted to give a try. I'm very please 3/4 of my corsica germinate in less than 5 weeks.
Each seeds batches were soaked 48h in water + bicarbonate 40%.

Next year i'll try on more eratic species.

[Gabriela]

Nice to play with the seeds and see the roots emerging Yann.

For those who are not that experienced in germinating peonies I want to add that the majority of species with two stage dormancy (like P. veitchii, anomala, obovata, japonica and many others) will easily form roots after about 2 months of warm temperature. This can be provided like Leena mentions in Ziploc bags with vermiculite or just by sowing the seeds in the regular way at a proper time (July/August).
Then, they shoot dormancy will be broken after a cold period. Even older seeds will germinate OK (try to soak the seeds for two weeks before sowing).
In most cases the two year germination is mentioned just because the seeds are sown at a wrong time.

[Véronique Macrelle]

even if they are sown as soon as they are ripe, part of the seeds do not germinate ... remain in reserve in the soil
 I also have other problems:
P. cambessedesii finishes its seeds late here (end of September) and does not germinate even if it is sown immediately.
- I have a P obovata alba which germinates (5 seed of the srgc of January), but its 1st leaf starts immediately, at the beginning of winter; so I don't believe this natural germination will work this time around again.

 germination is easy to get when you have a lot of seeds per species, but as soon as there are only a few (4 or 5), this sowing becomes erratic, I find.

[Yann]

even if they are sown as soon as they are ripe, part of the seeds do not germinate ... remain in reserve in the soil
 I also have other problems:
P. cambessedesii finishes its seeds late here (end of September) and does not germinate even if it is sown immediately.
- I have a P obovata alba which germinates (5 seed of the srgc of January), but its 1st leaf starts immediately, at the beginning of winter; so I don't believe this natural germination will work this time around again.

 germination is easy to get when you have a lot of seeds per species, but as soon as there are only a few (4 or 5), this sowing becomes erratic, I find.

If you grab you own seeds and sow them end of july they got enough warmth until end of october and germinate usually un december.
But for the seeds sourced from seedex or purchase, they're shipped too late. The seeds rot easily, it's looking good on surface but inside fungies destroy embryo.

As Gabriela explained vermiculite is also working nicely but if seeds are freshly put in bags.

[Gail]

even if they are sown as soon as they are ripe, part of the seeds do not germinate ... remain in reserve in the soil
 I also have other problems:
P. cambessedesii finishes its seeds late here (end of September) and does not germinate even if it is sown immediately.

It may be worth trying before they are fully ripe Véronique. I accidentally knocked off a pod when the seeds were still creamy-white so sowed them anyway and they germinated same year.

[Véronique Macrelle]

it is interesting Gaël!
 I will try ...
 I also don't let as many pods develop anymore because the year I pollinated everything and left everything, my peony got tired and only made 2 stems the following year.
 Without hand pollination, this year I only had one seed on P. cambessedesii. I sowed it immediately, but it did not germinate.

[Véronique Macrelle]

you're right Yann,
 I dug my pots of peony seedlings where I was still waiting for germinations, and I only found empty seed shells.

 this makes room for future seedlings!

 all the same a small result (even if it is on dozens of pots)
in 7 years of sowing
 I have
-a successful young plant of- Paeonia daurica tomentosa
 -2 seedlings P. perigrinafrom 2 different  origin
-1 P.mloko
-1 Paeonia tenuifolia
-2 P. officinalis
-2 P. mascula which should perhaps flower for the first time in 2021

 I systematically miss P. anomala and P. obovata,
 finally this fall I have a started root of Obovata alba, but as it develops its 1st leaf, excluding season, I have no real hope. P. anomala did the same (because of the warmth?) And it died.

 the good news is that I still have some way to go!

[Lesley Cox]

I tried cutting the tails from large clematis seeds and a very little of the actual coat, to provide access of moisture to the embryo inside. I did this because I happened to be cutting some onco iris seeds at the time. There was no result whatsoever. Being a bit more patient, I sowed the remaining seeds (Clematis hirsutissima) in usual seed mixture and had good seedlings in about 3-4 months from sowing. Though cutting these seeds didn't work, I'm in favour of experimenting with any seed which is large or different in some way. How else do we learn?

[Leena]

I find that also dry seed ex seeds germinate fairly well in moist vermiculite  when I first soak them for two days, but root forming takes longer than when sown fresh. Usually seeds put to vermiculite in late January form roots several months later, maybe in June-August. I just potted up in October some peony seeds from last winter (P.mascula, P.sinjangensis, P.ruprechtiana).

Then there is the thing that different species require different temperatures for root to form. In 18-20°C P.lactiflora, P.veitchii and P.daurica-types are easy, but P.officinalis or P.obovata very rarely form roots in that temperature - they need cooler temperatures more near to 10°C, and at least here they do better when sown outside.

Veronique,
if you want P.anomala, I can send you seedlings next spring  . It is almost like a weed here, when there are so many self sown seedlings coming up around the mother plant each spring, and I need to put them to compost. Also P.veitchii and P.obovata have self sown seedlings, but unfortunately never around P.mlokosewithcii (of course that may be partly because it never forms so many seeds at the first place and I try to collect them anyway).

[Leena]

you're right Yann,
 I dug my pots of peony seedlings where I was still waiting for germinations, and I only found empty seed shells.

That has also happened to me, but mostly in earlier years when I sowed the seeds directly to pots. If sown in vermiculite, it is easy to see if a seed is becoming moldy (I think this happens when seeds are not viable), and then remove it, but rarely there are seeds which are empty inside. I don't know why that happened to me only in pots, but that is why I changed my practice to sow peony seeds in vermiculite in zip log bags.