Germinating now- - photos of seedlings

[Véronique Macrelle]

 thank you for your suggestion Leena
it's interesting what you said about germination temperatures. and Paeonia cambessedesii, it germinates at what temperature?
 I tend to keep my seedling pots in my small greenhouse, where it's comfortable to watch them in winter.

for species like p.rockii [/ i], if the technique of cutting the seeds hastens their germination, it is still very useful. it seems that they take years to germinate.

[Leena]

it's interesting what you said about germination temperatures. and Paeonia cambessedesii, it germinates at what temperature?

I don't have that species, so I don't know:(. I think you have to look what the climate and temperatures are at the time after the seeds ripen, in places where it grows naturally.

[Gabriela]

I tried cutting the tails from large clematis seeds and a very little of the actual coat, to provide access of moisture to the embryo inside. I did this because I happened to be cutting some onco iris seeds at the time. There was no result whatsoever. Being a bit more patient, I sowed the remaining seeds (Clematis hirsutissima) in usual seed mixture and had good seedlings in about 3-4 months from sowing. Though cutting these seeds didn't work, I'm in favour of experimenting with any seed which is large or different in some way. How else do we learn?

I am also very much in favor of experimenting Leslie, I think I showed enough about it on this Forum.
If you read my reply with attention will see that I said "for those not experienced..." . I get many emails from people who read this and that in all places, then they think that if they try a more complicated method they'll get better result, which most often it doesn't happen.
So, there is no need to look for hidden meanings in my reply.

[Gabriela]

That has also happened to me, but mostly in earlier years when I sowed the seeds directly to pots. If sown in vermiculite, it is easy to see if a seed is becoming moldy (I think this happens when seeds are not viable), and then remove it, but rarely there are seeds which are empty inside. I don't know why that happened to me only in pots, but that is why I changed my practice to sow peony seeds in vermiculite in zip log bags.

True, seeds that are not viable will rot in vermiculite Leena; it is happening to many other species I keep in moist storage, and it is easy to remove them.

I also found empty seeds shells in some peony pots, even in the cases after I 'planted' the seeds already having roots (grown in vermiculite).
In a way it is normal to easily lose such 'seedlings' because the pots may remain too wet at times and there are no shoots and leaves to use the water. It is often happened to me for other species with 2 stage germination, one example being the Lilium species which form bulbils after a warm period then as well need to go through a cold period
before growing leaves.

So, it is very important that during the time when only roots/bulbils/little rhizome are in pots to keep a very good eye on the watering, and especially to keep the pots protected during rainy/cold periods (like in late fall); fleshy organs rot easily in such conditions.

[Carolyn]

Gabriela,
I’m glad I am not the only one to have found empty shells after having pre-germinated the peony seeds. It’s a good point to note - no shoots and leaves mean not much water is required. I will try to take more care in future.

[Gabriela]

Gabriela,
I’m glad I am not the only one to have found empty shells after having pre-germinated the peony seeds. It’s a good point to note - no shoots and leaves mean not much water is required. I will try to take more care in future.

Carolyn, I'm sure there are many others who could join us! only that not too many are looking into empty pots in search of 'evidence'. I usually group all the pots with 'something inside' in a corner of the cold frame (which gets a shade netting for the summer) and water sparingly, but then when it rains too much accidents always happen.
Talking peonies the only species I feel sorry not taking more care of is P. brownii. If I decide to try it again, I'll definitely be more careful.

[Yann]

It may be worth trying before they are fully ripe Véronique. I accidentally knocked off a pod when the seeds were still creamy-white so sowed them anyway and they germinated same year.

I also sow green seeds i don't wait the coat turns into black.
Chinese also scarifiy seeds soaking seeds 1/2h-1h in Ethanol 95% vs 5-7 days water soaking.

100% Viability of paeonies seeds is less than 1 year.



https://patents.google.com/patent/CN103843548A/en

[Yann]

Carolyn, I'm sure there are many others who could join us! only that not too many are looking into empty pots in search of 'evidence'. I usually group all the pots with 'something inside' in a corner of the cold frame (which gets a shade netting for the summer) and water sparingly, but then when it rains too much accidents always happen.
Talking peonies the only species I feel sorry not taking more care of is P. brownii. If I decide to try it again, I'll definitely be more careful.

Paeonies seeds don't need much water to germinate, in the wild i saw seeds of P. mascula germinating early september above the soil and this in south side hills.

[Véronique Macrelle]

above the ground, it finally seems logical: 'mama peony' does not bury its seeds. Unless a small animal takes care of it.
 water the seedlings too much: this is one of my faults

[ashley]

Thanks Yann.  This table surprises me a little and I wonder about the quality or age of seed used.  For example, P. ludlowii seeds itself around in my garden very enthusiastically without help from me or gibberellic acid. 
Regarding the stratification regimes (fixed temp x duration) referred to, I also wonder whether fluctuation in temperature might not be more important (if harder to describe & reproduce).

[Gabriela]

Thanks Yann.  This table surprises me a little and I wonder about the quality or age of seed used.  For example, P. ludlowii seeds itself around in my garden very enthusiastically without help from me or gibberellic acid. 
Regarding the stratification regimes (fixed temp x duration) referred to, I also wonder whether fluctuation in temperature might not be more important (if harder to describe & reproduce).

It surprises me as well Ashley, I can only comment on P. rockii and P. suffruticosa, which both will germinate well without GA3. P. rockii was the first species I start 'playing' with long time ago because it was donated on a regular base to our local seedex. Even seeds older than 1 year (2 or 3) will germinate. I only first soaked older seeds very well for more than a week (changing the water regularly).

If Ga3 would be so effective then it would shorten at least the time required for root emergence, which looking at the table it doesn't (still about 3 months).
P. suffruticosa I only tried once and don't remember how long it took for the roots to emerge.

[johnw]

I have seed from AGCBC which I received in January and stored moist in the refrigerator, and just doscovered them yesterday.  It's is purportedly 'Abkhazi Princess' of which Joe Harvey who developed AP says ""it cannot be registered since it is not a clone but merely the same F1 hybrid repeated each year.", so the seed could be op unless someone was in the know.

How should I handle this seed?  I have powerful LEDs at 5-7c and flourecents at both 7c and 17-18c.

john

[Gabriela]

'Abkhazi Princess' is a wonderful peony John, even if you will obtain a slightly different specimen; a nice story behind it as well.

I don't quite understand: you kept the seeds in the fridge from January till now?
I don't know why you would do that, but if so, place the Ziploc bag in a warmest room of the house (in a dark corner). They should start emerging roots in +/- 3 months.

[johnw]

'Abkhazi Princess' - I don't quite understand: you kept the seeds in the fridge from January till now?
I don't know why you would do that,

Gabriela - too many seeds about, I simply forgot about them, if you saw our refrigerator crammed with Asian sauces, chutneys and you name it   mkes finding anything close to impossible.  Lots of bad language when we go to it to find something.  Joe, who developed this hybrid, tells me one must repeat the cross every year to get Abkhazi Princess.

john

[Yann]

Astragalus seeds are not easy get germinated, i'll soak overnight in sulfuric acid 20% + water. Same treatment gave me previous winter good results after many failures with scarification methods.