What's happening in your fridge?

[Graham Catlow]

I notice that most people seem to be doing the same as me and trimming the roots when repotting, but my question is does anyone then have a way to stop the bulbs falling over in the pot when they flower?

I find that when the pseudobulbs flower, the new roots have not developed sufficiently to support the bulb with the weight of a heavy flower on a relatively long stalk, and they can often then fall over when transporting them to a show if you use an open compost. Very discouraging when you arrive late at a show and have to start standing everything up and packing bits of extra moss around the pseudobulbs!

Admittedly I tend to trim the old roots shorter than Maren does in her photo (mine are trimmed to about 1cm) - is this where I'm going wrong?

I suppose the obvious answer is to leave the roots longer to allow for anchorage. You could then use something like hair grips to pin the roots in place. I don't myself and do have the problems that you suggest.
If I could I would leave them in their original pots for a couple of years but I don't have the facilities to overwinter tham like that. This would solve those problems as they would be anchored naturally.

[Peter Maguire]

If I could I would leave them in their original pots for a couple of years

I'm reluctant to do that in view of the possiblility of pests overwintering. I was thinking of keeping the compost level lower in the pots, and then packing fairly fimly with moss around the pseudobulbs.

With longer roots, I find that it's too fiddly to get the pseudobulbs sitting upright, especially if you are potting them up fairly densely. And I'm afraid I wear my hair short now, don't use hairgrips.

[Maren]

Not hairgrips - screws.   Sorry, couldn't resist.

My solution to the problem of falling-over pleiones in transport (I know it well) is to screw them into the compost. Just as you would with tropical orchids with long roots, you screw (or twist) them into the pot so that the roots don't get squashed but follow around until all have been accommodated. Then you add the compost.

With pleiones it is slightly different. What I do is this:

1. Overfill the pot with loose compost, tap the pot to settle a bit.
2. Hold the bulb into the centre of the pot and push down gently while your other hand is turning the pot in a screwlike fashion. When you think the bulb is low enough in the compost, just turn the pot a quarter turn in the opposite direction. This anchors the roots into the compost. If you don't do the last counter turn, the roots act like a spring and the bulb jumps out of the pot.

Another way to anchor the bulbs is to pot without the screwing motion and just add a sprinkling of fine bark over the top. That tends to hold it down. But if you do that, you must remember to stop watering earlier in the autumn, else the new pseudobulbs will get too wet and will rot before you get a chance to harvest them. Been there......

[Slug Killer]

As far as the fridge goes for over wintering it's a big no from me as I lost half a fridge full when it was too packed and the thing froze. If a fridge is packed solid and the air inside can't circulate it will work overtime and certain areas can then freeze. It was a costly mistake.

I agree with Maren and simplicity is best. One cleaned, trimmed and dipped I let them dry out and then store in the garage, paper bagged and boxed (no wood chips or anything else in the bags). Although I'm sure it must get below freezing at times I don't have any loses this way. Even stored some bulblets removed from the flask early before Christmas and they all seem fine as well.

As per most recommended guidelines regarding potting up, if the bulb is covered one third left showing - three quarters of the way up it should not fall over anyway. I cut my roots short (1cm) as I find this method far easier than trying to push, twist and turn roots in to a hole.

Bulblets left in the garage over winter.

[Pascal B]

As far as the fridge goes for over wintering it's a big no from me as I lost half a fridge full when it was too packed and the thing froze. If a fridge is packed solid and the air inside can't circulate it will work overtime and certain areas can then freeze. It was a costly mistake.

Depends on what type of fridge you use, the ones that cool with an element inside the fridge can get the contents below freezing if too tightly packed or only opened once a few weeks. It happened to me so now I have a fridge with the cooling element at the back. Actually...., I bought 2 fridges for overwintering my collections....
And still I have to use part of the fridge in the kitchen sometimes. Ugly disease...plant collecting...

[Maren]

Gosh, David, that is one fine mass of yunnanensis bulblets. I hope you get them all safely through the coming year. 

[Slug Killer]

Gosh, David, that is one fine mass of yunnanensis bulblets. I hope you get them all safely through the coming year. 

Fingers crossed, will be interesting to see how many make it. Going to try a few in sphagnum and some in different mixes. Same goes for all the other species I've got on the go as its a bit hit an miss the first year.

Pascal, I've had both types of fridge freeze on me and the costly one (lost Pleione) had the element on the outside. This has never frozen since though and I can only put it down to the amount we had packed in to it over Christmas. The other small fridge with inside element as you say seems to freeze frequently when packed full as I have a redundant one in the garage now used for storage but turned off.

After a heavy loss I'll never store in the fridge again and I don't think they need it either unless you are trying to delay flowering for shows, delaying growth making sure they are planted out after the frost spells are nearly over or live in a climate with very mild/warm winters.

[Graham Catlow]

Gosh, David, that is one fine mass of yunnanensis bulblets. I hope you get them all safely through the coming year. 

 I don't think they need it either unless you are trying to delay flowering for shows, delaying growth making sure they are planted out after the frost spells are nearly over or live in a climate with very mild/warm winters.

Or you simply have nowhere else to keep them cool and frost free. I really have no other option. I now realise I probably don't need the shavings, and to go to the trouble I do, but it has worked for me and until I have no more room I think I will stay with this method.

That is a serious amount of yunnanensis David - good luck.

[Slug Killer]

Gosh, David, that is one fine mass of yunnanensis bulblets. I hope you get them all safely through the coming year. 

 I don't think they need it either unless you are trying to delay flowering for shows, delaying growth making sure they are planted out after the frost spells are nearly over or live in a climate with very mild/warm winters.

Or you simply have nowhere else to keep them cool and frost free. I really have no other option. I now realise I probably don't need the shavings, and to go to the trouble I do, but it has worked for me and until I have no more room I think I will stay with this method.

That is a serious amount of yunnanensis David - good luck.

Point taken.

[Nick_the_grief]

Speaking from a dahlia point of view - I used to keep my tubers in deep polystynere boxes with shaving in and never had any problems then a few years ago I switched to wrapping in newspaper and this year ... I lost the lot  so If I were you I'd stick with the shavings 

[Peter Maguire]

Just read the replies about repotting. Thanks Maren and David - I think I may try the 'screw-in method' as I don't like to pot the pseudobulbs too deeply.

[Slug Killer]

Just read the replies about repotting. Thanks Maren and David - I think I may try the 'screw-in method' as I don't like to pot the pseudobulbs too deeply.

You could use liquid nails and stick the bulbs to the side of the pots with the new shoots facing in

An a serious note if you use larger bark as infill around the bulbs it will be free draining enough and have no effect on the bulbs themselves. I grow yunnanensis completely covered now as I find they are the worst culprits for falling over when in flower.

[Tony Garthwaite]

It's very interesting reading all the comments regarding this question. For 20 years, I've never resorted to using a fridge for Pleiones, but I suspect it depends on where you live and how severe the winters are. This winter has been very cold and damp in the period of late October and November and I found that the compost in the Pleione pots was not drying out as it usually does. So, I started to remove from the pots in late November.

This year as usual I cut the roots back to about 3mm length (sometimes less!). They were then placed into paperbags made from sheets of A4 sized paper folded into cones. These labelled bags were placed into a large plastic box, open at the top and then put into the greenhouse on the floor where they remained through the very cold spell in December (down to -7C) for about 4 weeks. They were then potted up into a mixture of fine bark, large perlite, small perlite and cut dry sphagnum moss with only the top 25% ov the 'bulbs' visible (if that!). The temperature was still below freezing for another couple of weeks and though friends about 15 miles away say they have lost most of their Pleione due to the frost, my bulbs all remain firm if dormant. the compost is still very dry and I do not intend to give any moisture untill growth is very evident.

So much for needing a fridge!!!!
Lowering the bulbs in the potting mixture shoud help to overcome most problems of the flower heads falling over, but I suspect that we will always get a few that refuse to stand to attention!

[Maggi Young]

Have you no mice in the greenhouse, Tony? I'd be worried for the bulbs being eaten while they were on the ground . ( Not that the average mouse isn't perfectly capable of climbing, I know!! )

[Tony Garthwaite]

Maggie, I do have mice in the greenhouse, but they are attracted to the warmer part where I have tropical orchids!

Also, the 'bulbs' were well wrapped in heavy gague paper and in a polyethylene box with sides which sloped slightly outwards, so that may have been a deterent!

I'm glad I got the 'bulbs' out of the  wet compost before the hard frost. I'm sure the dry cold was better for them than wet compost!

On another topic (is this allowed?!) my wife and I visited Wisley on Monday (first time) and the Alpine House is superb!

Tony