Crocus February 2011

[tonyg]

No it was not becasue of the name on the label. I think I remember seeing it in his greenhouse and asking him why he thought it was special. I also think we agreed to differ.
Boring Sunday afternoon and I am decorating which gives me time to think and I was just raising the point that lots of mediocre plants seem to be named for no reason. I will not even start on galanthus.

[tonyg]

I was just raising the point that lots of mediocre plants seem to be named for no reason. I will not even start on galanthus.

Couldn't agree more Tony.

Tony, would you think similarly about C. sieberi Hubert Edelsten?

No.  I believe this is a Bowles selection and it is widely commercially available having stood the test of time.
edit: funny how you remember the wrong answers!  Janis corrected me last time : Hubert Edelsten raised the plant named after him ... I wonder who chose the name?

.....but perhaps you were asking the other Tony

[tonyg]

Cvijicii will definitely be crossed by what I know as 'Bowles' White' sieberi. Seedlings were all white but shaped like cvijicii or pale yellow.

That's interesting Lesley. I thought I'd read that sieberi 'Bowles' White' was sterile. But I may be wrong. Anyway, useful to know that cvijicii and sieberi will cross.

I have had seed off Bowles White occasionally - it has bred only lilac 'atticus type' plants so far.  Perhaps the white will reappear in the next generation as it has with seedlings ex ex Crocus goulimyi 'Mani White' where the first generation were all purple.

[ian mcenery]

We were just discussing with a visitor today how much we all like C. sieberi Hubert Edelsten    Beautiful crocus!

It is a lovely one. Mine is a solitary corm that does not want to increase

Here is a good doer for me C vernus Uklin Strain

[David Nicholson]

I was just raising the point that lots of mediocre plants seem to be named for no reason. I will not even start on galanthus.

Couldn't agree more Tony.

Tony, would you think similarly about C. sieberi Hubert Edelsten?

No.  I believe this is a Bowles selection and it is widely commercially available having stood the test of time.

.....but perhaps you were asking the other Tony

Yes Tony I would be interested in TW's view.

According to the great man's (Bowles) Handbook, Hubert Edelsten raised two seedlings between a Creten type of C. sieberi sieberi and C. sieberi atticus. The first received an RHS First Class Certificate in 1924. The second seedling was named 'Lingwood Beauty' "larger and more richly banded with purple.

I wonder if 'Lingwood Beauty' is still around? Nice pic of Hubert Edelsten on Bulb Log 8/2007

[Maggi Young]

for more about Hubert Edelsten and Lingwood Beauty....

http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4748.msg132666#msg132666
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4748.msg132699;topicseen#msg132699

[David Nicholson]

for more about Hubert Edelsten and Lingwood Beauty....

http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4748.msg132666#msg132666
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4748.msg132699;topicseen#msg132699

Thanks for that Maggi.

[tonyg]

Sunshine .... and I am at home!  Snatched a few pics while cooking the Sunday roast.

Crocus rujanensis seedlings.  Some appear hybrids with C sieberi which is very closely related.  Note variation in flower size.
Crocus sieberi seedlings.  The label says ex C sieberi nivalis but externally these look like C siebei sieberi.  Inside the strong lilac markings are unusual for sieberi sieberi .... definite intraspecific hybrid ..... controversy - does the darker coloured one need a name?
Crocus sieberi sieberi - nicely shaped and marked variants.  If I was offering for exchange or sale plants of Crocus sieberi how do I tell someone that plant 'A' is different to 'B' ... OK its not really necessary to say more than "variable forms of ...."   ................  until someone else wants "one like the one you gave him/her"!   (I use numbers - less controversial than names!)
Crocus corsicus seedlings.  I keep raising them every time I get seed of C corsicus.  It is never plentiful so I have not yet worked up a large stock   These are not as variable as is sometimes the case.

[tonyg]

And a few more:

Crocus pestalozzae.  Has the smallest seeds of any crocus, truly tiny and produced in large numbers.  The white form increases quite well by corm division when I grow it properly.  The blue one I increase mainly form seed.  The black spot at the base of the filaments is a distinguishing feature.
Recently discussed :  Crocus imperati white form(left) and Crocus malyi(right).  I will try and get out there tomorrow with the Crocus book and decide if the supposed white imperati is really malyi.  (Had cookery book out today
Crocus etruscus
Crocus vernus (x tommasinianus).  I'm calling it 'Yalta type' as I do not grow Yalta for comparison and I believe this plant although similar is likely different.

[Martin Baxendale]

Your "Yalta type" doesn't look as dark in the tube as 'Yalta', which in my plants is always as dark as the tube of speciosus 'Oxonian'.

[tonyg]

Thanks Martin - I don't think this is Yalta but there are some similarities.  If Yalta warrants a varietal name then perhaps this one does.  Its got huge flowers, a lovely rounded goblet shape BUT its a slow increaser.

[Tony Willis]

I was just raising the point that lots of mediocre plants seem to be named for no reason. I will not even start on galanthus.

Couldn't agree more Tony.

Tony, would you think similarly about C. sieberi Hubert Edelsten?

David

C sieberi Hubert Edelsten is very nice but what makes it more worthy of a name than the three below?

Variety is the spice of life and it is personal choice. I think raising from seed  gives you that variety and opens up new horizons as far as variation is concerned.

[Lesley Cox]

It is just my personal opinion but also my personal experience to some extent that sterility is a flexible quality in many plants. I've had seed on several that are said to be sterile, Saponaria 'Olivana' is one. It may be a matter of finding the right pollinator which will work with that particular plant or it may be sometimes that a plant won't produce seed, but the pollen is fertile on the right receptor. I'd never now, say this or that plant is sterile and expect never to be proved wrong.

It could also be that, dare I suggest such a thing, the UK climate is not always sonducive to the production of seed sin some plants.

[Diane Clement]

Crocus rujanensis seedlings.  Some appear hybrids with C sieberi which is very closely related. 

Tony, how do you tell C rujanensis from C sieberi. Here's my pot labelled C rujanensis but is it?  (and I have a feeling you are also going to say "virus"   )
I had an interesting correspondence last year with David Hill, the co-discoverer and co-author of C rujanensis.  He had found the name on the AGS seed list and contacted me as he didn't realise the species was in cultivation.  I directed him to several sites and sources of the seed and plants, and in return he sent me a little book he has written "The Genus Crocus in Serbia".

[Lesley Cox]

I agree with you Tony (W), the three you show are just as fine in their own way. If they were Galanthus they'd be named before the buds were opened Thank God though, that Croconuts show a lot more discretion and restraint than Galanthophiles.