Erythronium 2011

[Ed Alverson]

Here are a few pictures from one pot of seedlings from E. hendersonii which must have hybridised in the garden. Which ones shall I name and bulk up too much of a choice
Also E. taylori and E. elegans?

Susan, might I suggest that you treat your E. hendersonii hybrids as if you were implementing a deliberate hybridization program?  I have no credentials as a plant breeder, but based upon what I have picked up over the years, I would think that some of the criteria (in addition to flower color and markings) would include flower form (nicely reflexed is best), plant size and shape (particularly the size of the flowers relative to the leaves, the bigger the flowers relative to the leaves the better), ability to increase vegetatively from offsets, and general growing ability under normal garden conditions.  For example, E. hendersonii comes from a climate that very dry summer conditions and winters that are not so cold, so crosses with hardier species (such as E. oregonum, which it looks like yours may be) may confer and extra bit of garden worthiness.

Also, I might suggest that you manually pollinate the various E. hendersonii hybrid plants with other hybrids from the same seed lot, and grow on the resulting seedlings.  In theory it would be this F2 generation that would provide the wider range of combinations of plant traits, thus increasing the chance of coming up with a plant that meets all of your plant breeding criteria.

Also, about your E. taylori - I think this would be an excellent plant to use for breeding, but it is quite uncommon in cultivation.  Try crossing it with some of your other white flowered species - in particular I'd suggest trying a cross with E. elegans; also the nominate (white flowered) form of E. oregonum, which formally should be called ssp. oregonum, would be good.

Let us know what happens!

Ed

[udo]

Susan, phantastic Erythronium
Ed,here the comparison from my two forms Ery.hendersonii,
left: normal form with pollen and more curve in the flower
right: vigorous form with shorter anthers without pollen

Ery.americanum, over 50 bulbs and only three flowers

[David Nicholson]

Here are a few pictures from one pot of seedlings from E. hendersonii which must have hybridised in the garden. Which ones shall I name and bulk up too much of a choice
Also E. taylori and E. elegans?

Gorgeous seedlings Susan. Speaking as the owner of a lovely clump of E.'Pagoda' (it's taken me about five years to get it to the catagory of "clump") and one or two other, but 'sqinny' kinds I'd be interested in more details on your bulking up procedure please?

[Susan Band]

Hi Ed, I am planning to separate the seedlings out and grow them on for a few years, that might reduce my choice since any that don't do well here won't be considered. All my Erythronium are grown outside, most do really well in Scotland. I have already named a pink hybrid from E. revolutum, What was lacking in the general trade was a pink that bulked up well, I have had reports that it does well in most parts of the country, I think it had crossed with white beauty and has it's vigor, perhaps not as beautiful as some of the forms of revolutum but decidedly easier to grow for the general public.
I hadn't planned to get hybrids from E. hendersonii I am afraid I will have to be retired before I will have the time to do any deliberate hybridization. I just like to grow stock from seed as well as division in case there are any problems with pests or diseases. Usually I only grow my seedlings from wild seed but with Ron Ratko giving up the sources are getting less.
The E. taylori was grown from wild seed as are all the other species I grow. Although they flowered a little last year, this year they are being to show their potential. I like the way the flowers reflex back so much, I can see why you think it would be a good candidate for hybridisation.
It will be a while before any more hybrids will be available to the masses so to speak but I have a couple of good hybrids from dark E. revolutum that I might release soon. Any from this batch of hendersonii I decide to keep will probably take about 5-10years before being released.

David, to bulk up any Erythronium that I want it is a case of planting in good leafy soil in a cool position and digging every couple of Autumns and separating them out to different areas of the garden/beds. In general the hybrids tend to do better. Joanne is an attractive one which multiplies well as is of course White Beauty (assumed not to be a hybrid) Pagoda and my own Kinfauns Pink.
Thanks everyone for the kind compliments and I will show them again in 5 years.
Susan

[jshields]

Went out walking along the Monon Trail today, and found masses of Erythronium americanum and E. albidum in bloom in many spots.  They weren't in bloom when I passed that way on Monday.  The Monon Trail is a former railroad track, improved and paved: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/Blogs/Garden/201008.html#e6c

I should have carried my camera along.  Spring has come to Central Indiana!

Jim

[Maggi Young]

Went out walking along the Monon Trail today, and found masses of Erythronium americanum and E. albidum in bloom in many spots.  They weren't in bloom when I passed that way on Monday.  The Monon Trail is a former railroad track, improved and paved: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/Blogs/Garden/201008.html#e6c

I should have carried my camera along.  Spring has come to Central Indiana!

Jim

You should have carried Ian Young along, Jim, he'd love to see them !

[mark smyth]

I've always read/heard that E. americanum is a shy flowerer but there are two gardens over here where they flower really well. Photo later

Two from my garden - Harvington Snowgoose and Kinfauns Pink. I dont know where Kinfauns came from. I know it's one of Susan Bands but it didnt come from her. My Snowgooses/Snowgeese were sooo cheap because onthe pot I bought had about 9 bulbs inside. One clump didnt flower last year

[jshields]

The E. americanum out along the Monon Trail are blooming fairly generously this year -- but I don't recall seeing them blooming there at all last spring!  The small batch of americanum in my bit of woods -- transplanted in by me -- had only one single flower this spring, and that one had gone over by today when I took the camera out.  I do have some pictures from my patch of albidum to share, perhaps tomorrow.  I've still been too lazy to carry the Nikon D90 along with me on the Monon Trail.

While the two native species naturally do fairly well in my patch of woods, other species from around the world that I've planted here generally have done poorly.  Of those tried so far, multiscapoideum (or whatever it's called now) is the only one to still be hanging on far out of its natural range.

Jim

[jshields]

Here is a single, typical, white Erythronium albidum blooming in my bit of woods.  These were transplanted in from a friend's wood about 5 miles from here.  Also shown is a very unusual specimen that appeared in my patch of albidum this year for the first time: a bright yellow form of what I think surely must be albidum, even though a few feet away is a very small patch of E. americanum.  I've never heard of the two hybridizing, and they occur within feet of each other in habitat all the time. 

Most of the americanum seem to be past prime now, which the albidum look quite fresh.  Even so, I assume there is more than just a temporal barrier to hybridization between these two species.

Jim

[Ed Alverson]

Susan, phantastic Erythronium
Ed,here the comparison from my two forms Ery.hendersonii,
left: normal form with pollen and more curve in the flower
right: vigorous form with shorter anthers without pollen

Dirk, the only thing I can see in the close-ups of your E. hendersonii forms that suggest hybridization is that the stigma lobes look a bit longer than I usually see in E. hendersonii (species with which it is likely to hybridize in the garden such as E. oregonum, revolutum, or californicum all have markedly lobed stigmas).  The description in Flora of North America says that the style/stigma of E. hendersonii should be unlobed or with lobes up to 1 mm. long.  So you might take a ruler to the flowers and check this character.  If they were hybrids, I would expect to see yellow or red bands in the center of the flower along with the purple.  The colors of the tepals look just like regular E. hendersonii, in which there can be a lot of variation in the intensity or darkness of the shade of lavender of the flowers.  This is reflected in my photos posted earlier, my plants are grown from seed from a single wild population but some are almost white, others fairly deep lavender.  I can't really see the anther filaments in your photo, but a hybrid with E. oregonum or E. revolutum (though not E. californicum) would have somewhat flattened filaments, in contrast to the thin (thread-like) filaments of straight E. hendersonii.

Ed

[WimB]

The last one in my garden is flowering here today:

Erythronium helenae.

[Janis Ruksans]

Here are a few pictures from one pot of seedlings from E. hendersonii which must have hybridised in the garden. Which ones shall I name and bulk up too much of a choice
Also E. taylori and E. elegans?

All three are very good! Phantastic, Suzie! My greetings!
Janis

[mark smyth]

Susan Band's lovely Kinfauns Pink on Ebay and they are using Susan's photo to sell it.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390263912439&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNAFP:GB:1123

[Susan Band]

Thanks Janis,

Mark it is okay, I supply them to westcountry and she asked about the photo.
Susan

[mark smyth]

Does anyone know the name of the lovely white Erythronium on the Beechgrove Garden tonight