Allium 2011

[wmel]

Please, who can help me with this allium cultivar identification. I got it from my colleague, who just grow bulbs for cutting and selling and takes minimum interest in thier names. So it came to me without a name. I thought that it was allium 'Globemaster', but anyway I have some doubts as it it not as big as I expect. It is about 120 cm tall with flowers heads of around 13 cm in diameter. Catalogues usually show flower heads and part of stem for many allium cultivars, so those photos are not of much use for ID purposes.

It is indeed very difficult to ID one of the "Big" allium from a photo. Is it possible to post a picture of a flower close up?
And what size bulbs did you plant, was there a skin around the bulb, and what colour was the flesh, does it make any ofsets and are these smal or big, ore is the bulb splitting into 2 or 3 same size bulbs every year, does it make seeds that germinate or no seed at al?

When the bulbs you planted are not to big it looks like "Beau Regard", But when this allium is growing from big size bulbs it has the same flower-stem as "Globemaster" (Double) as most hybrids have from big-size bulbs.
Your allium also looks like allium "Gladiator" . That is not a hybrid and makes seeds that germinate.
When is your allium flowering?  Is it one of the earley flowering alliums or is it late?
Where did the original bulbs come from? from seed or from cultivated stock.

[Boyed]

It is indeed very difficult to ID one of the "Big" allium from a photo. Is it possible to post a picture of a flower close up?
And what size bulbs did you plant, was there a skin around the bulb, and what colour was the flesh, does it make any ofsets and are these smal or big, ore is the bulb splitting into 2 or 3 same size bulbs every year, does it make seeds that germinate or no seed at al?

When the bulbs you planted are not to big it looks like "Beau Regard", But when this allium is growing from big size bulbs it has the same flower-stem as "Globemaster" (Double) as most hybrids have from big-size bulbs.
Your allium also looks like allium "Gladiator" . That is not a hybrid and makes seeds that germinate.
When is your allium flowering?  Is it one of the earley flowering alliums or is it late?
Where did the original bulbs come from? from seed or from cultivated stock.

Thank you very much for your comments Wietse!

I will try to answer to your questions.
Firstly, I would like to note, that it must be a common cultivar, which is widely available, as it was bought from a regular garden centre.
It is the second year with me. Last year I planted a single bulb of about 10 cm in diametre, it splitted into 2 same sized bulbs of the size as the original one. Thre were no small ofsets. The skin was white and the flesh as far as I remember - yellow or yellowish. It makes seeds, but I didn't collect them to test for germination. This allium is flowering a bit later than allium 'Gladiator' (approximately a week or 10 days later), I would say nearly the same time as allium hollandicum. Currently it is in flower in our region.

I post a its picture of a flower close up, as you asked and a picture of my allium hollandicum.

[bulborum]

Allium stipitatum

[wmel]

Could be allium "World cup" or allium "Pink Globe"
For photos please see my website: http://www.wmel.nl/?pagina=3&tp=6

[Boyed]

Roland, Wietse,

Thanks a lot for your comments and contributions. Now I really see that that is not 'Globemaster'. Indeed, it is quite hard to identify it for sure, but I think I wil stick to 'World Cup'

[bulborum]

It helps maybe a lot with some pictures from the bulb
as Wietse mentioned
shape , colour , nice skin when you bought it

Roland

[olegKon]

Some alliums in the garden now
1. allium falcifolium
2. allium carolinianum
3. allium gooddingii

[Stephenb]

Thanks all for all the great Allium posts (too little time at the moment to study in detail).

I posted pictures of my Alllium carolinianum (which I received from another gardener here in 2005, unknown origin) somewhere either here or over at NARGS, but couldn't find it. I remember Mark commenting that it was a good form. Therefore, here they are again (pictures 1 to 3). Should have seed in the autumn.

I just returned from a trip to Sweden and Denmark and the last two are from the Botanical gardens in Goteborg and Copenhagen. The former looks possibly correct, but not the latter. Have also received carolinianum another time and it was wrong.

[TheOnionMan]

Hello onion fans, a mad dash reply here this morning before work...

@Wietse:  I think the 2 alliums you show, as A. siskiyouense and A. falcifolium, are both A. falcifolium (even if your siskiyouense came from Janis)...  the leaves on that siskiyouense look too broad.  Allium falcifolium and siskiyouense are closely related, thus similar, and A. falcifolium, like many alliums, is most variable.

@Oleg:  nice shot of Allium carolinianum flowers, shows precisely what I was talking about when describing the flowers as pinched florets with the stamens squeezing by.

@Stephen:  your photos capture the aspect of A. carolinianum well, very nice, and yes, I think you have a good form.  I love the view of the emerging leaves.  I planted out seedlings of this species last week, the seed collected in Kazakhstan.  I have more to say about the variability of this species, but will try to comment later.  In the last photo in a botanic garden, those plants look like Allium senescens or nutans (or hybrid of those species) and not carolinianum at all... again I'm not believing the names put onto Alliums in botanic gardens, perhaps 1/2 of them are misidentified   I could be wrong, maybe those are fine clumps of A. carolinianum, but I'd bet money on it being something else.

[bulborum]

Mark

If you read my story before
than you know you are sooooooo optimistic
I did not count exactly
but I would dream from 50%
80% or even more comes first

I reorganised the Allium's in the Botanic gardens from Gent (Belgium)
there was one !!!!! name correct
from over 30 species
and they send out seeds  

Roland

[Stephenb]

Allium expert Dr. Reinhard Fritsch of Gatersleben confirmed that it's more than 50%. He wrote to me "According to our experience about two-thirds of Allium taxa offered by the seed exchange of Botanic Gardens were completely mis-named".

[Stephenb]

I reorganised the Allium's in the Botanic gardens from Gent (Belgium)
there was one !!!!! name correct
from over 30 species
and they send out seeds  

I visited Gent a couple of years ago and all the Alliums I saw were correct as far as I could see!! Must be thanks to you, Roland!

[bulborum]

And the head-gardener

Who was very interested
he wanted to know everything
I showed him how to keep the assortment clean
just spending a little time every week

Roland

[Lvandelft]

Last year I acquired this Allium but I have no name. About 40 cm high. I hope somebody can tell me a name?
I think it is a good garden plant because long flowering.
The first pic is from 6th June and the second is of yesterday 16th and will keep its color for some time, I presume.                                               

Allium ??       

[TheOnionMan]

Last year I acquired this Allium but I have no name. About 40 cm high. I hope somebody can tell me a name?
I think it is a good garden plant because long flowering.
The first pic is from 6th June and the second is of yesterday 16th and will keep its color for some time, I presume.                                               

Allium ??       

Luit, those are chives, Allium schoenoprasum.  Found in most of the northern hemisphere, the species is amazingly variable, but I'm fairly certain it is A. schoenoprasum. There are numerous (dozens) of regionally named forms, such as subsp. latiorifolium, but few if any of the subspecies and varieties are recognized, but it is a good illustration just how variable the plant is, that so many subtaxa have been described.

There is a chance that it could be A. ledebourianum, but the true species is relatively rare in cultivation, and as well, it is practically indistinguishable from A. schoenoprasum.  The last possibility is A. altyncolicum, a relatively recently defined species, which is among my favorite species, with bluer foliage that tends to be more upright and stiff, and really large heads of showy bloom, typically blooming well after A. schoenoprasum... but I don't think your plant is that species.