Allium 2011

[TheOnionMan]

Here is my Allium Geyeri,it arrived today.

Davey and Wietse, both of what you show as Allium geyeri is correct. 

[TheOnionMan]

There is a real Allium aflatunense, long since found and described, and cultivated... the problem was, the plants widely cultivated and mass-produced in Holland were not that species; it was simply a misidentification of an Allium of unknown provenance.  Take a look at the records in the link below (most with photos) of Allium aflatunense in the Gatersleben "Taxonomic Allium Reference Collection", the plant shown has much more dense, wide-petaled flowers than the starry-flowered plant that we all now know as A. hollandicum.  The naming of Allium "hollandicum" was done to in some way recognize a plant that was for many decades misidentified and proliferated around the globe via mass-production, the story of its naming is quite an interesting example of how such misidentification problems might be solved, and it was a rare approach indeed.

http://pgrc-35.ipk-gatersleben.de/pls/htmldb_pgrc/f?p=265:3:4102782023660464::NO::P3_SCIENTIFIC_NAME:21

Mark,

I have opened your link and saw a lot of photos from allium aflatunense.
The one we grow looks as TAX 5632 , 5694 and 5562. (bought from Janis Ruksans)
I think TAX 2121 and 3692 look more like allium altissimum???

Well, not sure what to say... I have found at least two items in the Gatersleben "Taxonomic Allium Reference Collection" that were clearly wrong, and I questioned them and those accession records were actually removed.  But based on my many communications with Dr. Reinhard Fritsch, I defer to his extraordinary expertise which I believe is unparalleled in the world of Allium taxonomy... but even so, the collection represents years of collection and diagnosis by many individuals, and some might still be misallocated.  I grow bulbs that were received from another foremost expert in the Allium arena (Arnis Seisums) labeled as A. altissimum, but when Dr. Fritsch reviewed my photos he said they were probably A. stipitatum and not A. altissimum!?!  I believe he is right.

[TheOnionMan]

Wietse, your photos of Allium acutiflorum and A. huber-morathii yank at my inner Allium-fancy, may I please ask for seed of these too.  Many years ago I grew Allium acutiflorum sent to me from Richard Dadd in England, and I grew it for many years; a very pretty species, but sadly I lo longer have it.

With Allium truncelianum; it's a monster!  I love it's large size and bold stature.

Thanks Maggi for posting a link back to my 2010 photo on Allium geyeri, as usual you are right on top of things.

Jamie:  I'm a total sucker for a good form of Allium cernuum; aren't they nice?  That's a most worthwhile form to grow.  Mine are just starting into bloom now, it's a 2-month-long season of bloom depending of various forms.

[TheOnionMan]

This year, after many years, bulbs received as an Allium sp. from Chen Yi nursery, China, sent to me from Aaron Floden, has matured and is flowering well. It flowered once before, but with an immature bulb, and I didn't key it.  Now it seems mature, with several stems up to 30" (30 cm) tall and tight knobs of rose-striped buds.  Here are 2 shots of the buds, and one of the stem and mostly basal foliage... I will try to key it out, if the blooms survive 5 straight days of pouring rain.



One that has seeded around quite a bit, is Allium amplectans, a western American species.  It is quite variable, some are "easy doers" and others seem fussy and totally requiring xeric conditions. I have hundreds of these all over the place, but I do not worry as the foliage is thin, the flowers are cheerful, and the whole plant dries up and disappears with respectable speed.

[Stephenb]

I posted these first over at NARGS as I thought Mark had left us here, but with the resurgence in the Allium discussions herein, I'm reposting. I also have some pictures of Alliums from the open garden and other non-Alliaceous which will appear in due course...

Thanks Stephen, I've been unable to post much... it drives me nuts being back to a crazy work schedule and unending local traveling/commuting... I get home many nights at about 8:30-9:00 PM exhausted... no energy to do anything, and my email backs up in a major way.  Glad to see the activity here with Alliums on SRGC!  Absolutely love the overhead shot of Allium akaka, a species I've yet to grow and flower here!

The photo of Allium scilloides might in fact be that species; visually it basically fits, but the identification tag says "NV USA"  Allium scilloides only occurs in Washington State (WA) not Nevada (NV), so not sure what to think about that ;-)

Don't worry, Mark - I realised this! You should probably be spending more time in the garden! I'm sure we all appreciate your contributions even more under the circumstances.

There's a simple answer to the scilloides mystery. NV probably stands for NordVäst (North West in Swedish!).

[Janis Ruksans]

[/quote]

My understanding of A. aflatunense is that the bulb mass produced in Holland for decades and sold as A. aflatunense, wasn't!  There is of couse, a true Allium aflatunense; but most of us have never seen the true Allium aflatunense.  To address the misnamed plant so long mass-produced as A. aflatunense, with rare acquiescence to the situation, the wrongly named plant, one indelibly established in horticulture but for which taxonomists could not conclusively explain what it was, was described in Latin and published as a new taxonomic entity in 1993 as A. hollandicum by Dr. Reinhard Fritsch, thus a "species" only known in cultivation sourced from Holland.

So, with some certainty, there is Allium hollandicum (syn. A. aflatunense of HORT) for these past 18 years, and there does exist true Allium aflatunense, which most of us do not grow.
[/quote]

True aflatunense by leaves and flower scape and umbel looks close to A. macleanii (syn. A. elatum) but very different is bulb - something elongate with pointed tip and usually every year split in 2-3 equal size bulbs without small offsets. A. macleanii bulbs are round and more often makes smaller offsets. Another similar Allium is A. stipitatum- it's bulbs resemble those of macleanii but leaves are hairy.
Janis

[Stephenb]

Haven't seen mention of Allium douglasii here (if indeed it's what Tromso Botanical Garden are growing it as - I was given a plant when I visited two years ago). First 3 pictures of it taken today in my garden (not at its best as it's been very bad weather this week) and then centerpiece in a multi-species salad put together last weekend for an unsuspecting group of visitors...it disappeared so fast I hardly got a taste myself):

[Stephenb]

Two of my eastern Victory Onions (Allium victorialis). The white flowered one I received as Allium ochotense from Tromso and was I understand collected in East Asia and the other came from a Japanese trader as Allium victorialis platyphyllum...

[wmel]

Wietse, your photos of Allium acutiflorum and A. huber-morathii yank at my inner Allium-fancy, may I please ask for seed of these too.  Many years ago I grew Allium acutiflorum sent to me from Richard Dadd in England, and I grew it for many years; a very pretty species, but sadly I lo longer have it.

With Allium truncelianum; it's a monster!  I love it's large size and bold stature.

Mark, I will keep some seed of allium huber-morathi and acutiflorum for you (also tuncelianum), maby some bulbs from acutiflorum are more easy because acutiflorum makes only a little seed but very much bulbs/ofsets.

This year, after many years, bulbs received as an Allium sp. from Chen Yi nursery, China, sent to me from Aaron Floden, has matured and is flowering well. It flowered once before, but with an immature bulb, and I didn't key it.  Now it seems mature, with several stems up to 30" (30 cm) tall and tight knobs of rose-striped buds.  Here are 2 shots of the buds, and one of the stem and mostly basal foliage... I will try to key it out, if the blooms survive 5 straight days of pouring rain.

Your allium from China looks like an allium I grow as allium macrostemon var uratense?

[wmel]

I found some old photos of the real allium aflatunense bought from Janis Ruksans, and one old photo of a. dasyphyllum.

[TheOnionMan]

Haven't seen mention of Allium douglasii here (if indeed it's what Tromso Botanical Garden are growing it as - I was given a plant when I visited two years ago). First 3 pictures of it taken today in my garden (not at its best as it's been very bad weather this week) and then centerpiece in a multi-species salad put together last weekend for an unsuspecting group of visitors...it disappeared so fast I hardly got a taste myself):

Yes, that looks like Allium douglasii, albeit, looking a bit leafy and soft growing in a more moist climate.  I studied immense populations of Allium douglasii when I lived in Washington State, finding it growing by the acre at approximately 5000' elevation in the Wenatchee Mountains (more inland spur of the Cascade Mountains), wonderful dry mountains that are home to a couple famous native plants including Lewisia tweedy and rediviva, Douglasia nivalis, and Fritillaria pudica.

Allium douglasii grew by the millions in vernally wet slopes in full sun, the most robust colonies growing in shallow depressions and swales.  At the drier edges of the swales (a shallow gulley or ditch), the plants were smaller, with much narrower leaves, and keyed precisely to A. douglasii var. nevii.  At the low point of the swales where much more moisture would linger longer, the plants were much larger, stocky, with bold broad falcate leaves and large heads of bloom, keying to Allium douglasii var. douglasii.  Plants growing somewhere between the low points and the dry rim areas, had moderately broad falcate leaves, keying to A. douglasii var. columbianum... all three "varieties" in perfect evidence within yards of each other, and with plants blending through each variety as one walked towards the moist low point of a depression.  I became convinced that these 3 so-called varieties of A. douglasii were absolutely meaningless, and any taxonomist studying these populations would come to the same conclusion, my belief is unchanged to this day.  Clearly these plants react dramatically to environmental conditions, relative to moisture. 

In my travels around Washington, Oregon, and Idaho, I would find plants that could be keyed to one or more of these three "varieties", although I never encountered A. douglasii var. constrictum with a bulged stem just under the inflorescence.

To my amazement, not only were these taxa retained as separate taxa, but were raised to species status!!! , thus we have in the Flora of North America (FNA) Allium douglasii, A. nevii, A. columbianum and A. constrictum.  In FNA, the distributional ranges would preclude wide falcate-leaved var. douglasii and var. columbianum from occurring anywhere near the Wenatchee Mts location where narrow (1-3 mm) leaved var. nevii occurs, but my eyes and my studies did not deceive me... the handsome broad-leaved forms did exist there way outside their stated range... these 3 varieties of A. douglasii should not be recognized, nor should they have been elevated to species status (in my opinion).

[TheOnionMan]

Two of my eastern Victory Onions (Allium victorialis). The white flowered one I received as Allium ochotense from Tromso and was I understand collected in East Asia and the other came from a Japanese trader as Allium victorialis platyphyllum...

Stephen, I like the pinkish one.  Not sure of the latest status of A. ochotense, whether valid or not, usually this is a synonym of A. victorialis.  Looking through the records of the Gaterselben "Taxonomic Allium Reference Collection", there are some lovely pinkish forms, a couple with near black pedicels, would really like to obtain such a form some day.

http://pgrc-35.ipk-gatersleben.de/pls/htmldb_pgrc/f?p=265:3:3723674098921013::NO::P3_SCIENTIFIC_NAME:891

My two selections of A. victorialis that I purchased from Pacific Rim Nursery years ago, looked very good this year, the selection name 'Kemerovo' on the left and the close-up photo (red base to the pedicels) and larger flowered 'Cantabria' on the right; the latter reaching about 30" tall.

[TheOnionMan]

I found some old photos of the real allium aflatunense bought from Janis Ruksans, and one old photo of a. dasyphyllum.

Seeing true Allium aflatunese, it is clearly so different that A. hollandicum (Allium aflatunense (sic) of Hort)...  good to see these.  Thanks Wietse and Janis for adding comments regarding this confusion.

[bulborum]

Mark

as far as I know is the real name Allium victorialis cantabrica AMH 7827
and is a mixture from seedlings collected by Antoin Hoog
I have plants from 25 to over 50 cm tall
selecting them out in the moment

Roland

[TheOnionMan]

Mark

as far as I know is the real name Allium victorialis cantabrica AMH 7827
and is a mixture from seedlings collected by Antoin Hoog
I have plants from 25 to over 50 cm tall
selecting them out in the moment

Roland

As far as I'm aware, there is no latinized name Allium victorialis cantabrica, but there is a selection named A. victorialis 'Cantabria' (also often seen listed as 'Cantabrica').  Here's a link that describes two named selections of A. victorialis; 'Kemerovo' and 'Cantabria', and also mentions our friend Stephen Barstow

http://toads.wordpress.com/2009/05/