Allium 2011

[wmel]

Nice series Wietse!

Is the A. pulchellum 'Olympic Mist' originally from Paige Woodward at Pacific Rim Nursery?  I grew plants from her identified as Allium flavum var. tauricum "blue florm" or some such identification; looked just like yours, a densely-flowered head of maroon-purple color with a bluish cast, a striking color.  Some plants were a milk white with a blue-purple tinge... they were clearly forms of Allium pulchellum; both lovely unique colors.  They only persisted a couple years with me, sadly I no longer have it.

Allium govanianum is a synonym of Allium humile, from China, India and Pakistan.  Allium humile is listed as having scapes 5-25 cm; you guess correctly that your plant is probably misidentified.  I've grown many forms of Allium tuberosum, they can vary quite a bit, including stem height, and bloom time can vary by a few weeks, but generally they are late summer bloomers.  Your plants might me A. ramosum, which blooms mid summer.  Can you take a close-up photo of the flowers, and a leaf cross-section closeup?

Regarding Allium sphaerocephalon, it is also highly variable, although mostly represented by one form mass-produced by bulb growers.  There are 4 subspecies, and indication just how variable the plants are.  Brian Mathew in his "A Review of Allium section Allium" monograph says "A. sphaerocephalon exhibits a considerable amount of variation".  The flower head is described as "spherical, or broadly ovoid", thus they can be round shaped as in the plant you show, or the oblong egg-shaped head that we customarily see with the mass-produced form. Between the 4 varieties of A. sphaerocephalon, the flowering period is collectively given as May-September (although June-July is most typical).  Variation...variation...variation.

Going through Flora Italiana, the only species your plant is likely to be is Allium sphaerocephalon... check out the numerous photos in the link below (scroll down to see them), it illustrates quite a bit of variation, including fully round-headed forms. Note that flowering time is given as May to August.
http://luirig.altervista.org/schedeit/ae/allium_sphaerocephalon.htm

I can't remember where my Olympic Mist came from, But I think I bought it from Nijssen- Heemstede.

Thanks for al the information. I will call my a.govanianum: "tuberosum Large form" from now on. I have a. ramosum to, but that one is much different from a. tuberosum in a lot of things, and my 'govanianum' looks a lot as a. tuberosum in many ways.

Same with a. spaerocephalon round. It is almost the same as the "normal"allium spaerocephelon, but then with round flowers, so I wil call this on: spaerocephalon "round form" from now on.

[TheOnionMan]

Too hot to do much gardening and weeding today, 92 F (33 C), drenched from sweat just walking around taking pictures and watering a bit.  A couple Alliums caught my eye, the extra good form of A. caeruleum I got from Denver Botanic Garden has gone by, but the sphere of light blue pedicels still show nicely.  Second is a tall form of Allium flavum.

Last are two shots of the remains of Allium oreophilum 'Torch'; the dried heads with stems attached tend to blow around the yard, so I put a rock on the gathered dry stems to let them mature naturally.  Just checked, and while the heads look very dry, the capsules inside are still green and juicy, with 1-3 plump seeds inside... I'll wait another week before sowing seed in situ around the parent clump.

[wmel]

Last are two shots of the remains of Allium oreophilum 'Torch'; the dried heads with stems attached tend to blow around the yard, so I put a rock on the gathered dry stems to let them mature naturally.  Just checked, and while the heads look very dry, the capsules inside are still green and juicy, with 1-3 plump seeds inside... I'll wait another week before sowing seed in situ around the parent clump.

How high is your a.flavum growing??, and my second question:Do you always sow allium seeds direct after they are dry??
I keep all allium seed dry and hot (25oC) in the greenhouse and sow them arround the first of november. That way they don't come out before februari and they don't suffer to much from winter/frost

[johnw]

Mark - I too have to ask how tall your A. flavum is?  Ours is about a foot high.

johnw

[TheOnionMan]

Regarding the "tall flavum", I got this from a friend Mike Huben, a daylily hybridizer but all-around plant purveyor, and when seeing plants in his dry, sandy garden, I couldn't believe how tall his Allium flavum plants were, measured as 26" (65 cm) tall!  In my garden, they have not grown as tall, only just reaching 20" (50 cm)... I just dashed out with a flashlight and tape measure to get an accurate measurement. John, most of my A. flavum plants are between 12"-16" (30-40 cm). 

He also had an extraordinarily tall growing Allium senescens montanum (probably a hybrid) that was nearly 4' (1.3 m) tall, most impressive, but once again in my garden it has not approached those dimensions... I'm led to conjecture maybe there is some sort of mineral or nutrient in his soil that is causing such unusually tall growth?

With Allium seed, I normally do what you do Wietse, sow in winter.  Alliums with larger rounded seeds (melanocrommyum types, many western american species, species like victorialis, and others) can be sown now, immitating nature.  But you're right, some seeds might germinate to their detriment in the autumn, but most seed will wait until spring.  I've had good luck sowing seed of Allium oreoprasum 'Torch' in the ground immediately when ripe, otherwise this one almost never increases for me, or increases too slowly, so I've been able to enlarge the colony from direct seed sowing.

[Oron Peri]

Mark,
Your A.  flavum is a stunner

Here are two Allium:
A. sandrasicum from seeds collected in Antalya.
The second is from seeds i have collected in Cyprus, seems to be a form of A. guttatum which is rare on the island, it has small inflorescence of less than 2cm.

[TheOnionMan]

Cool, on both accounts, A. sandrasicum with its silly hat, and the little lime green one... I suppose an immature or small variant A. gutattum, cute as a button!

[Magnar]

I have this Allium that I grew from seeds many years ago. Would be very nice if anybody could identify it. I have no records of it's origin.

Pics if the whole plant, and closeups of the flowers and leaves. The plant is about 40 cm tall.

[Stephenb]

This looks very much like Allium prattii (Pale form) which I had identified a few pages back:

http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=6685.msg206560#msg206560

If it is, it also explains where my plant came from as I had various Allium sp. (Ex-Magnar) on this bed  

[Magnar]

This looks very much like Allium prattii (Pale form) which I had identified a few pages back:

http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=6685.msg206560#msg206560

If it is, it also explains where my plant came from as I had various Allium sp. (Ex-Magnar) on this bed  

Hei Stephen, yes it sure looks like prattii. I had not noticed the earlier postings about it. It's been here for quite some years and sets seeds every year. Nice to have a name.. Thanks 

[TheOnionMan]

I second Stephen's ID as Allium prattii.  And it's a handsome pale form with dark stamens, a good one!

[Magnar]

I second Stephen's ID as Allium prattii.  And it's a handsome pale form with dark stamens, a good one!

There will be seeds in the autumn for anyone interested .

[Knud]

I got this allium about 15 years ago as either an A. cyaneum or A. sikkimense. The original clump has grown in its through since I got it, and it blooms well each year. The first picture shows this plant in 2009, the second picture is of a much younger plant, and the third a detail of the younger plant, both taken this year. It has grass-like leaves, grows to 10-15 cm (4-6 in), and starts blooming mid to late July.

Is it an A. cyaneum or an A. sikkimense, or neither?

Thank you,
Knud

[wmel]

I got this allium about 15 years ago as either an A. cyaneum or A. sikkimense. The original clump has grown in its through since I got it, and it blooms well each year. The first picture shows this plant in 2009, the second picture is of a much younger plant, and the third a detail of the younger plant, both taken this year. It has grass-like leaves, grows to 10-15 cm (4-6 in), and starts blooming mid to late July.

Is it an A. cyaneum or an A. sikkimense, or neither?

Thank you,
Knud

It looks like a. sikkemense to me, maby a. beesianum??

I post from each a photo  ( a. cyaneum and a. beesianum)

[Magnar]

I also think it is sikkimense. My sikkimense is about to start blooming now, while beesainum not will be in bloom till September up here, and cyaneum some time in between those two. .