Allium 2011

[TheOnionMan]

Shame, I did initially think Phyteuma which I grow myself, but I thought I could see Allium-like flowers and I can't see the upward curving bracts typical of that species.

Do you know what the real Allium spicatum looks like? How could one make a mistake like that?

Well blow me away, all teasing aside, Stephen... I think you're onto something, you have a sharper diagnostic view than I.  When you asked about what the real Allium spicatum, I look through the compendium "Nomenclator Alliorum" and there is nothing close to "spicatum", so next I charge over to INPNI.ORG, and find there is indeed an Allium spicata, named in year 2000, apparently a merging by Nicolai Friesen of Milula spicata (1895) into the allied genus Allium.  Just checked The Plant List, and there is no genus Milula anymore (one of several anagrammatic names made by jumbling the genus name Allium).

And blow me away again, when I go look at images of Allium spicata (Milula spicata), I had no idea that an Allium relative of such divergent appearance existed.
http://www.biologie.uni-osnabrueck.de/bogos/wir_ueber_uns/friesen/publications/MPE99-0181.pdf
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200027769
...detailed drawing:
http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=60725&flora_id=2
http://digital.nls.uk/indiapapers/browse/pageturner.cfm?id=75002608

Here's a youtube link for a video on Phyteuma spicata, definitely not a match for the plant in the Allium photo gallery.


Thanks so much Stephen for the gentle lesson, I shall try not to be so quick to jump to conclusions in the future!  Now, has anyone grown Milula spicata, looks fascinating.

Parting thought: I'm totally puzzled with the taxonomy of current times, where some genera have been split up using extremely subtle micro-fine lines of division (Asters, Muscari, etc) and others show great leaps of faith in lumping (all alliums have umbellate inflorescences ((I know, I know, Allium monanthum typically has but 1 floret, rarely two)), now apparently with the exception of but one species, Milula spicata with a spike or spicate inflorescence) . Lumping of Nectaroscordum into Allium is similarly faulty for several obvious reasons, in my opinion.

[bulborum]

I have never seen a picture of Allium spicatum

Roland

[daveyp1970]

Here's quite a nice pic of it Mark http://www.planetefleurs.fr/Systematique/Liliaceae/Allium14b.htm

[Stephenb]

Well blow me away, all teasing aside, Stephen... I think you're onto something, you have a sharper diagnostic view than I.  

...just new reading glasses, Mark...

It gives me great pleasure to blow you away for a change!

[PeterT]

I'm thoroughly enjoying learning about all these new Alliums 

[TheOnionMan]

Here's quite a nice pic of it Mark http://www.planetefleurs.fr/Systematique/Liliaceae/Allium14b.htm

Davey, an excellent photo, revealing much detail.  After seeing the maturing inflorescence with seed capsules, I wonder about the botanical description of the inflorescense being spicate; I'd say it is umbellate not spicate, you can see the stem stop at the bunch of pedicels all connecting at the same central point... not continuing up with pedicels attached along the stem's length like it would be on a Muscari.  Most likely the center florets have elongated pedicels that create the appearance of a poker-shaped head; certainly there are some alliums that present their flowers in upright fastigiate fashion due to elongated pedicels.

Exploring Dave's link, there are a few more photos.  The photo showing a group of plants in flower shows this to be a charming plant, I'd like to try growing it!
http://www.planetefleurs.fr/Systematique/Liliaceae/Allium_spicatum.htm
Tibet, Népal. 2900 - 4800 m.

Looking at other photos at this site, I recognize some of the same photos as seen in the link Stephen gave:
http://gardenbreizh.org/photos/karlostachys/album-17944.html

Stephen, glad to send some delight your way 

[wmel]

If it is a real Allium, I think it's a beauty, But is it stil Milula or do we have to name it allium now, just like nectaroscordum

Here's quite a nice pic of it Mark http://www.planetefleurs.fr/Systematique/Liliaceae/Allium14b.htm

In some way it looks like allium a lot..............
I only have some trouble to see allium without it's round flowers.....

I had been looking on the internet for allium spicatum, but couldn't find anything. Mark; you are much better in finding these things!

[TheOnionMan]

If it is a real Allium, I think it's a beauty, But is it stil Milula or do we have to name it allium now, just like nectaroscordum

Here's quite a nice pic of it Mark http://www.planetefleurs.fr/Systematique/Liliaceae/Allium14b.htm

In some way it looks like allium a lot..............
I only have some trouble to see allium without it's round flowers.....

I had been looking on the internet for allium spicatum, but couldn't find anything. Mark; you are much better in finding these things!

Weitse, I am just a "google hound".    Of course, a spelling error in a name (spicatum vs. spicata) can make a big difference when searching, so I often use wildcards in my searches.  Searching IPNI.ORG using a wildcard can work wonders.

Here's another interesting PDF, talking about the relationship of Allium spicata (Milula spicata) to some sections of the genus Allium.  This was published in 2005, 5 years after Nicolai Friesen's taxonomic change to Allium (N. Friesen is amonth one of the top taxonomists involved withj Allium).  After seeing the closeup photo the fruiting inflorescense with conventional umbellate structure, I can feel better about it being moved over to genus Allium.
http://www1.unifi.it/caryologia/past_volumes/58_4/58-4_1333.pdf

[wmel]

After al the bulbs are planted we are starting sowing al seeds of allium.
This year we have seeds from 87 different alliums most in (very) smal amounts.
from a few alliums we sow a lot of seeds for bulb-selling in the future.
(allium tripedale, backhousianum and karataviense "Red Giant") in total we sow 32 kilo seed.
I post some photo's from the sowing

[TheOnionMan]

Weitse, that's amazing!  Looks like a tremendous amount of work.  But I see that for you, as for me, that direct sowing in the open ground can be very effective.

[fermi de Sousa]

Very impressive seed-sowing!
We all know that collecting alliums can seem a bit kinky, but I didn't realise that it can be the alliums that are kinky too!




cheers
fermi

[Stephenb]

Weistse: 32 kilos of Allium seed is a serious amount!! Look forward to following their progress over the coming years...

Fermi: That isn't Allium flamingoensis is it?

[TheOnionMan]

Fermi: That isn't Allium flamingoensis is it?

Stephen, I have looked and looked for this new species of yours but my eyes are turning pink looking at the screen so long!

[Stephenb]

You remember last time you didn't believe me, Mark!  It's named for the bright pink bulbs which you can't see in Fermi's picture...

[fermi de Sousa]

Fermi: That isn't Allium flamingoensis is it?

Stephen,
you'd think it was - from these 2 examples - interesting that they have the same kinks! They are supposed to be Allium amethystinum - these ones are in a bit of shade and perhaps weren't sure which way to turn to reach the most sun?
cheers
fermi