February Narcissus 2011

[annew]

Why did he call it moronensis? Referring to a location? Or was he having a joke?
Perhaps I'll take up Tecophileas, or something else with only a couple of species  . Not really..

[Rafa]

yes, Anne, "moronensis" is the name that Gerd used because it grows in "Morón de la Frontera", Sevilla, but also it grows in many other places.

[Maggi Young]

yes, Anne, "moronensis" is the name that Gerd used because it grows in "Morón de la Frontera", Sevilla, but also it grows in many other places.

 Interestingly, I find that Morón means a hill or hummock and near Braemar, in Aberdeenshire there is a large hill called Morrone.... this translates from the Gaelic as  big hill...... often a clue, isn't there? 

[Gerry Webster]

Mine too. Nice little daff Ian.

Here is Narcissus cantabricus 'Antequera' from Paul Christian's catalogue last year although the catalogue spelling was 'Antiquera which must be wrong. A pretty little thing but I don't think it warrents a name I'd be just as happy with it as N. cantabricus.

David - I think the name of the town can be spelled either way. I had 'Antiquera' from Christian a couple of years ago which  looked completely different! I killed it fairly quickly. I remember some time ago Diane Clement posted a photo of plants in the wild near this town which looked rather more like the one I had:

http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4631.msg118739#msg118739

Gerry, many thanks for the reference. Having read what Ian Young said in that discussion then it looks as though my plant could well be Narcissus cantabricus ssp. cantabricus (ie white tube, petals, filaments and style, with exsered style). Or have I got it wrong?

David - I'm reasonably sure that your plant is Narcissus cantabricus ssp. cantabricus. When I bought 'Antiquera' I assumed this was a cultivar name but it seems that it is meaningless.

[Rafa]

Exactly Maggy!, Morón is just a little hill, in this case just a half... they are transforming the hill in sandbags for make cement ...

[Rafa]

David - I'm reasonably sure that your plant is Narcissus cantabricus ssp. cantabricus. When I bought 'Antiquera' I assumed this was a cultivar name but it seems that it is meaningless.

There is enough confusion, as it is with botanical names, as to make it more complicated with new comercial and made up names... I totally disagree with this not very proffesional nomenclature....

[Rafa]

look at this, this is the only mountain in dozens of kilometers. This is one of the places where all these narcissi are growing, I wonder when they will decide it is the moment to stop eating the hill....

[annew]

When it is all gone, I expect, or it is cheaper to import it from eastern Europe or China or somewhere.

[David Nicholson]

Narcissus asturiensis, this one from Rannveig Wallis. I have another one from Simply Species which is in bud and I may be able to get a picture later in the week. It's slightly larger and last year a friend didn't think it was asturiensis it will be interesting to compare the two.

[Lesley Cox]

In NZ the plants sometimes available as N. asturiensis are invariably N. minor, much too big. But I know one garden, not mine alas, where N. asturiensis is just 5cms high!

LucS, your little white upright form is a real delight.

[Gerry Webster]

In NZ the plants sometimes available as N. asturiensis are invariably N. minor, much too big. But I know one garden, not mine alas, where N. asturiensis is just 5cms high!

Lesley - according to Blanchard, plants referred to N. asturiensis & those referred to N. minor overlap in size. He expresses some doubt as to whether there is any real botanical distinction between the supposed species & even whether N. minor exists as a wild species.

[Rafa]

I would like to clarify, that N. asturiensis is a very polymorphyc group of different species. In the nature, you could find very different plants in the same locality. Narcissus minor L. is not acceptable species as it hasn't type locality, it is a classic case of "greenhouse taxonomy" described in a pot, far from the country where it was collected.

For those who might be interested in this group, the better classification in my oppinion is:

N. asturiensis (Portugal, Galicia, Asturias, Cantabria, Burgos, León, Palencia, Zamora...)
N. jacetanus (País Vasco, Navarra, Huesca...)
N. salmanticensis (Salamanca)
N. muñozii-garmendiae (Ciudad Real)

[Gerry Webster]

Thanks for the clarification Rafa.

[Rafa]

I did a quickly scheme, my conclusion, most important in asturiensis group is the geographycal distribution, apart some important features. For example N. jacetanus (I don't' support subsp.) is glaucus and robust, N. muñozii-garmendiae has a long pedicel, the longest! and the perianth tube is like a candle. N. salmanticensis has a flatten perianth tube, very open angle and the filaments are almost in the ovary. N. muñozii-garmendiae and N. salmanticensis grows in just one range.

The size depends is not a valid character in my oppinion.

I also think it's very important to study their hybridation relation with Ganymedes and Bulbocodium sections.

[ArnoldT]

This is from Brian Duncan.

Narcissus cyclamineus 'Toothed Flange'


( edit by maggi to resize photo  )