Trillium 2011

[Roma]

I have two Trilliums behaving oddly

1 is Trillium erectum 'Beige' which I got from Paul Christian a number of years ago.  I thought it had died as I had not seen it for a few years but it is flowering this year.
2 is or was Trillium erectum white form when I bought it from John Lawson but has produced pink tipped flowers for a few years now.  This year part of the plant has white flowers and part pink tipped.  I hope to dig it up soon and check whether it is two separate plants and split the two colour forms
3 is Trillium erectum  --it was bought from PC as the white form but has always been this colour   

[johnw]

A friend asked me to identify this Trillium which she received from a nursery in a 5 pack with no names.  I know nothing about Trilliums.  Can anyone please identify it from these poor shots?

johnw - raining yet again.

[Knud]

Good morning, John,
I'm a member of the KNAT-club as well, so you have to take this for what it is worth. The trillium in your pictures look very much like one I bougth a few years ago as Trillium sulcatum. I have included a few pictures.

Plenty rain here to recently, but maybe dry today, just now the sun is shining.

Knud

[arisaema]

John;

The plant in your pics look a lot like the yellow form of T. erectum, and should smell like wet dog.

Knud;

I'm sure someone will correctly if I'm wrong, but I'm almost positive that's a T. flexipes.

[KK-Ann Arbor]

John,

I had the same question as your friend for the Trillium I grow.  Mine are red but very similar to the one in your posting, only the color.  I posted the photos on May 11.  I tried to identify the 2 red Trilliums by looking through the Triullium book by F. Case and thought them to be either eretum or sulcatum.  I cannot differentiate them from one to the other, though.  The only think I could think was the place they grow.  T. sulcatum seems to grow in southern area like Tennessee than Michigan where I live.

Well, I found a pot of Trillium with a pale yellow flower last Saturday at the farmer's market and bought it.    It looks very much like the one you posted photos.  The Trillium I bought was labeled as "Purple-beige Trillium, Trillium erectum".   I want to post the photo but will have to wait until I go to work on Monday. I need to resize the photo to post but the resizing tool is with the PC at work.

Knud,

Is T. flexipes a type of T. erectum or they are different types within the Pedicellate Trilliums?

I love these nodding Trilliums regardless of their formal names but very much interested in finding out who they are as well.

Koko

 

[KK-Ann Arbor]

arisaema,

Sorry, my question to Knud in my earlier post should have been directed to you.

Koko

[arisaema]

Koko;

Your Trillium are planted, right? "trillium red-2" looks like a typical T. sulcatum; with wide petals overlapping at the base. I'd probably label "red-1" with the same name, but a side view of it would be helpful - and there are other members here that are far more qualified to identify them. A couple of bad pictures coming up!

T. flexipes is a different species to T. erectum, although they can and do hybridize in nature.

[KK-Ann Arbor]

Arisaema,

Thank you for your comment.
Yes, they are planted in the ground.
I thought the two red nodding trilliums were slightly different but could not tell exactly how.
So, you think they are sulcatum?  I will try to take side-view photos.

Koko

[arisaema]

Sorry, I ment planted as opposed to wild, if you've bought them they were most likely wild collected in the Appalachians.

Please ignore the quality of some of these pictures, my camera doesn't like shade.

The first two show a small-flowered T. sulcatum, note the three-dimensional profile.

#3 and #4 are T. erectum from New York, much earlier and much larger-flowered than those in the south.
#5 is an Appalachian T. erectum.
#6 and #7 are T. simile (hybrids) from Gatlinburg, TN.
#8 is presumably T. erectum f. album with a dark ovary.
#9 is T. flexipes.
#10 is a lovely erectum-hybrid from Susan/Pitcairn Alpines named 'Kinfauns Hybrid'

[Knud]

Knud;

I'm sure someone will correctly if I'm wrong, but I'm almost positive that's a T. flexipes.

Thank you, Arisaema, I think you are right, and that it is most likely a T. flexipes. I looked them up in Case & Case's book on Trilliums, and if my Trillium is a flexipes, then it is most likely a southern form.  There are a number of eastern Trillium species that are similar and very difficult to tell apart, - and then they hybridise. What convinced me that mine more likely is a flexipes than a sulcatum was the shape and colour of the ovary: strongly ridged/angled and white flushed pink.

I also checked the plant label for more detail. Below the name (Trillium sulcatum) it also has the flower colour. Red it said, probably OK for a sulcatum, but not for my cream coloured flexipes. I guess one should be a little sceptical to labels, this plant came from a large commercial, but good nursery. I have a few of these "difficult easterners", and I am less certain about what they are now than when I got them.  I agree with you Koko, they are wonderful plants, and while it would be nice to know which they are, I am content to know that they belong to the Erectum subgroup.

Knud

[KK-Ann Arbor]

Thank you Arisaema and John for your information.

There are so much to learn!

It bothers me a bit if Trilliums I have acquired could have been wild collected and marketed, as Arisaema pointed out.  I must confess that I might not have been diligent enough to find out the sources but most of them were explained to be as nursery propagated or rescued from area to be developed.  It is illegal to wild collect Trilliums in Michigan.

I will study your photos, my plants and the Case book and try to figure out.

Koko

[gote]

That trilliums may be wild collected is not necessarily something wrong. There are land owners in the US who regularly collect trillium plants for sale just as they collect pines and other trees for sale. Furthermore many trilliums are collected where forests are turned into suburbs.

I have given up to try to discriminate between simile, erectum, flexipes, sulcatum and whatnotium. The names of those I have acquired did not fit the descriptions in the literature anyway. They seem to be a hybrid swarm. There are places where there is a seamless change over from one species in one area to another in another area. Some of them do not come true from seed either. Picture one and two  below which I think is close to the description of one of the flexipes types is the seed parent of picture 3 and 4. The first year the seedlings had the stalk bending more than 90° below the leaves. Today the stalk is held above the leaves. The ovaries have all kinds of colour between dark red and white.

There also is a variation depending upon the age of the flower and plant. Pictures 5, 6 and 7 are all of a plant acquired as simile and shows varying width and substance of petals and varying degree of flatness.

Cheers
Göte


      

[Maggi Young]

I have given up to try to discriminate between simile, erectum, flexipes, sulcatum and whatnotium. The names of those I have acquired did not fit the descriptions in the literature anyway.

I know what you mean..... if the plants cannot decide what they are, how are we to cope?! I am content to let the taxonomists occupy their time on such matters and for my part just enjoy the plants.

[KK-Ann Arbor]

I like the idea of leaving the work of Trillium variety determination to taxonomists.

I will just enjoy them and hope they will come back year after year.

Koko

[t00lie]

I've posted a number of recent Trillium pics on the NARGS forum.
To save 'cross' posting the link is below.

http://nargs.org/smf/index.php?topic=631.msg10698#msg10698

Cheers Dave