Paeonia 2011

[ArnoldT]

Dimitri:
How do you differentiate between the two.

[Leon]

Hong has Paeonia cathayana included in the tree peonies. I don't have the Hong book but hope to soon.  Does anyone grow this?  Ayone one have a picture?  Does anyone know anything about it?  Has it been renamed, if so under what taxon does Stern or Halda place it? 

There are many sources that supply P. suffructicosa, P. rockii, P. ostii, P. delavayi and P. ludlowii.  Are there any sources that offer P. qiui, P. jishuanensis, P. decomposita or P cathayana?  I would think there would be some sources for these in China.

I tried to compare Sterns, Halda, and Hong. The exercise has been a bit frustrating.  I thought there would be some semblance of them lining up.  They don't.  If you have any suggestions I would be glad to hear them.
Here is what I did ->http://www.peonies.org/cgi-bin/PeonySpeciesSidebySide.html

Leon

[arisaema]

OKpeony.com has cultivated material of Paeonia qiui and P. decomposita, as does Phedar, I believe. Lausitzer Pfingstrosen lists P. jishanensis, possibly ex Chen Yi?

> They don't.  If you have any suggestions I would be glad to hear them.

Hong discusses this in his book, will take a pic of the relevant page later.

[Matt]

Hong has Paeonia cathayana included in the tree peonies. I don't have the Hong book but hope to soon.  Does anyone grow this?  Ayone one have a picture?  Does anyone know anything about it?  Has it been renamed, if so under what taxon does Stern or Halda place it?  

There are many sources that supply P. suffructicosa, P. rockii, P. ostii, P. delavayi and P. ludlowii.  Are there any sources that offer P. qiui, P. jishuanensis, P. decomposita or P cathayana?  I would think there would be some sources for these in China.

I tried to compare Sterns, Halda, and Hong. The exercise has been a bit frustrating.  I thought there would be some semblance of them lining up.  They don't.  If you have any suggestions I would be glad to hear them.
Here is what I did ->http://www.peonies.org/cgi-bin/PeonySpeciesSidebySide.html

Leon

Leon,

you are a VERY BRAVE man!

Before getting crazy with all that complicated botanical literature, you have to be aware (i am sure you are!) that the concept of species (there are over 60 different definitions!) is a very human creation. Therefore the way we "classify" nature is completely independent from what nature is or does in reality...nothing is black or white, right or wrong...but there are lots of shades of gray!

I am always amazed by the similarity between jurisprudence and botany. Lawyers make the laws to be able to read them as they want...in the same way botanists dispute about nomenclature (which is part of international law!)...and most of the time is on the reader on how to interpret it. (...don't get me wrong...this is said with great admiration for the work of  both lawyers and botanists!)

Matt

[astragalus]

1. Paeonia tenuifolia

Astragalus, it isn't P. tenuifolia at all. It is rather P. intermedia C.A. May distributed in Kazakhstan steppes.

I hope you will say what the difference is and how you were able to identify this so quickly.  Gardeners I know are groing this as Paeonia tenuifolia and distributing it among themselves as such so there are a number of us who would be  interested in learning how this plant differs from P. tenuifolia.

[Leon]

Paeonia tenuifolia & intermedia

I have not grown P. intermedia.  The first plant that I received as a fern leaf peony was a plant that I think was P. smouthii.  Smouthii has foliage that is very similar to the photo posted by Astragalus.  I don't think smouthii is a species, I assume it to be hybrid as it does not set seed.

One unique feature of smouthii is the flower color is not a true red like every tenuifolia hybrid I have seen.  Smouthii is actually very dark hot pink.   The photo Astragalus posted does show flowers that may be in that hot pink color range but photos can be deceiving when it comes to flower color.

Leon

[astragalus]

I always thought of it as red but when the sun is on the flowers, they are a very dark hot pink.  So does that make another possibility for what this beautiful plant actually is called?

[arisaema]

Yijia posted a nice picture of a Xinjiang P. intermedia here.

Hong vs. other monographs below.

[Hoy]

While you guys are discussing names I am enjoying my plants with or without names
This is a seedling, I have no name. Possibly a cross.

[Regelian]

Great Foliage! Really sets off the flowers.  Yeah, something about is says hybrid, doesn't it.  Does it set seed? (not that that rules out hybrid!)

[Oakwood]

1. Paeonia tenuifolia

Astragalus, it isn't P. tenuifolia at all. It is rather P. intermedia C.A. May distributed in Kazakhstan steppes.

I hope you will say what the difference is and how you were able to identify this so quickly.  Gardeners I know are groing this as Paeonia tenuifolia and distributing it among themselves as such so there are a number of us who would be  interested in learning how this plant differs from P. tenuifolia.

Oh, never mind - the most people confused always!!!!! these two steppe's Paeonia species - P. tenuifolia and P. intermedia (syn. P. hybrida Pallas) BUT it is easy to separate them each other!!))) I'm growing this species  - P. tenuifolia, many many years from Crimea where this is distributed on jajlas and northern sea slopes. It differs by purest midsized scarlet color of flower and extremally thin leaf lobe like fennel leaves! and not so broad leaf lobes like on astragalus picture.
Please, find here on pics the plants of P. tenuifolia from my garden and wild - Flore Pleno form, ordinary Crimean plant and albino form pictured in N. Caucasus by Sergey Banketov from Russia. Pay attention to leaf lobe width - this is typical width for true P. tenuifolia, NEVER broader!!! And one more - the true P. tenuifolia is difficult to grow in humid and warm climat, it needs snowy cold winter and HOT DRY summer to induce the flowering. P. intermedia isn't so problematic plant in more north-western regions of Europe and very well grows and blooms even in Moscow.

[Hoy]

Great Foliage! Really sets off the flowers.  Yeah, something about is says hybrid, doesn't it.  Does it set seed? (not that that rules out hybrid!)

Yes, I like it although the flowers are rather small. It didn't set seed last year but who knows what happens this year

[Matt]

Hi

"A few" Paeonia officinalis banatica at Berlin-Dahlem Botanical Garden.

Matt

[Leon]

Hong vs. other monographs below.

Arisaema,
Thank you, This bares witness, that it does seem my attempt at comparison was futile, just as Matt indicated.
Leon

[David Nicholson]

Just an un-named garden hybrid but nice all the same. It's really a deep crimson but either my camera doesn't like reds or I'm a lousy photographer-possibly the latter