Daffodils in the Southern Hemisphere - 2007

[Martin Baxendale]

I was also just going to say (when Maggi beat me to it) that the idea of miniature poeticus is very exciting. I'd love a few pots full of those!!

I'd also agree with Maggi that some of the pics might look better with a grey or black background. With some flowers, the blue seems to make the petals look a bit thin and transparent (is that an optical illusion caused  by the blue background?), while a grey or a black I would thin k might make them look more substantial.

Apart from that, I've absolutely loved seeing your narcissus season unfolding. Many thanks.

[Paul T]

Graham,

Fantastic photos as always.  Absolutely loving the triandrus hybrids, NTT and species pics you're posting.  The Frits look great..... they're doing better than many of mine this year.  The early warmth in spring last year in my yard affected a lot of things by shifting them to dormancy earlier and therefore not as many flowering.  Crocus, Frits and Erythroniums in pots all affected but mostly fine in the garden.  Really enjoying all your daff pics as I have mentioned before.  Interesting to see the late bulbocodiums..... I have more still coming through at the moment, plus reflowering of some that finished a month ago.  Not sure exactly why, but I don't mind in the slightest!! 

Keep em coming!!  Please show the miniature poeticus when open.

Actually, very much admiring the Scilla vernalis too.  Haven't come across that one before, and by the look of it must look out for it in the future.  Love that pale colour!

[Maggi Young]

Paul, this is interesting:

the late bulbocodiums..... I have more still coming through at the moment, plus reflowering of some that finished a month ago.  Not sure exactly why, but I don't mind in the slightest!! 

No, I wouldn't mind either, but the interesting bit is why are they doing this? Do you think that perhap these "late" flowers are from younger bulbs which have taken that bit longer to get themselves in gear? Might they be from young bulbs. from seedlings rather than veg. increase which are adapting to a later season? Keep an eye on them and see what happens next year... 

[Paul T]

Maggi,

Nope, they're from the main bulbs, not from satellites or seedlings.  I can particularly note this as a couple that are flowering are bulbs given to me by a friend this year, so there can't be secondary bulbs in the pot when I only started with one or two of them, planted so they're obvious as to what is where.  The old stems are still there, with a new bud coming up beside them.  Even 'Fyno', which is an autumn flowerer has sent up flowers recently which have only just finished.  Then there are things like serotinus which haven't even started yet in the first place!!

[Maggi Young]

This is why bulbs are SO fascinating, isn't it? I nkow similar things happen with other plants, witness rhodos with "extra" out of season blooms and the Tree paeony I saw at my chum's house last week with quite a few flowers on, but with bulbs the question of whether flowers are extra, late or early is just more taxing, somehow!

[Luc Gilgemyn]

Graham,
I'd like a clump of just about anything your showing here !
The lottery tickets have already been ordered !  
I'll keep you informed.

[Mini-daffs]

 
Hi
Maggie, I am not into grey or black backgrounds. Black is the English way of doing it and I simply don't like it (we did a lot of test photos a few years ago and I went with the colour that I liked the outcome with the most). I won't be changing the way I do things (if you want an article it will have photos with blue backgrounds cause that is how I do things and if you don't want to publish it so be it-need a smilely for a grumpy eccentric hybridiser to go here). I use a background for the miniatures because it helps get the flowers in focus. You would see very few photos if I did not do it the way I do it. Most of the flowers are in the field or in their pots or boxes. Light and focussing are big issues. The light here is much brighter than your summer light let alone your winter light (that may explain your grey-black preferences!! You need a smiley with a tongue poking in and out for these sort of occasions!!) The only flowers that are picked are the Show flowers. I don't happen to like daffodil photos that are taken with a flash nor do I like touching up the colour in any way. On my computer the colour is fairly true. Some people won't see the true colour because they might have a CRT that is on the way out or a machine that is not as good as the one we use but that is outside of my control. The really small ones stretch my camera to the extreme. I am not sure when I will be upgrading as I have a new house to build in the near future. I don't often get a second chance to take photos a second time. I take the photos while I am hybridising. The watieri are now split in two and pollinated. The Brooke Ager has no anthers. The poeticus hybrids have had the pollen removed so I could hybridise them without fear of selfing them. And so on. I don't spend a lot of time taking the photos because it is not the main game for me. The photos have a role to play in relation to our hybridising and as a record of flowering times but the important thing is hybridising. I suspect that those who have made the comments are not aware how much hybridising work is involved vis-a-vis taking photos and posting them here when you have hundreds of thousands of bulbs to work with. Out of interest are any of the people who have spoken to you professional hybridisers, gifted amateur hybridisers or are they people who are more into photography than breeding? When it comes seed harvest time I would like to harvest around 25,000 seeds. Photos don't grow!!
Martin, the transparency is an issue if you use black, grey or blue and is even worse if you use a flash set-up. Some flowers do have fairly transparent petals. This is accentuated when the conditions are hot and dry like they are in Canberra at the moment. It leads to flowers that lack substance and texture. In layman's terminology, they won't last long as cut flowers!
In relation to colour, everything is done according to the RHS colour chart. I have flowers that look white but are white-yellow when you use the RHS colour chart. I will spend a lot of time producing flowers that are truly white according to the RHS colour chart! Interestingly, some hybridisers have produced white-red flowers from the pink side rather than from the red side. If you don't understand what I am talking about then it is a case of too much information of a specialist kind that I have not been going into here. In relation to colour, light is very important. A pink here is a different colour to the same flower when it is grown in the UK, the US, Tasmania or New Zealand. One of our friends has registered a flower as being all yellow but here it is yellow petals with an orange trumpet. There is a big issue with some of the UK flowers that are 2Y-R because they burn in the open garden here. They may be sun-fast in the UK but not in our light conditions. The colours you see from my photos will not be the same as photos of daffodils taken in most other places. The closest light conditions to ours will be in Spain or California.
The significance of the miniature poeticus is not only in relation to breeding miniature poeticus but into breeding miniatures with colour. It will allow us to develop miniature division 2 and 3 flowers that carry us into October. I may also be able to use them to increase the range of miniatures that flower earlier by using pollen from earlier in the season on them although poeticus are very powerful genetically for lateness of flowering. Once again probably a case of my giving too much information.
For those intrigued about the mobile pollen I will explain briefly. We exhibit a reasonable quantity of flowers at the Canberra Show. Most of the miniatures are fertile. The flowers are refrigerated both before and after the show. This allows me to do crosses using pollen from flowers that actually flowered up to 6 weeks ago. This enables me to produce flowers that I would not otherwise be able to do.

[Mini-daffs]

 
Martin, the Americans already have miniature poeticus and have had them for some time. Some are to die for I can assure you. Some of the miniatures were discovered at an old house site (they are known as Weston 1-20 from recollection) but the best have been bred by Leone Lowe. One of her is a 2W-R that has got to be seen to be believed. I don't often get a case of the wants in relation to other peoples daffodils but I do in relation to it. Our quarantine laws make it difficult to bring them in so I have done the next best thing which is to bring in seed that should allow me to breed miniature poeticus. I doubt whether there would be any in the UK. However, my fellow hybridiser Brian Duncan has some miniature wild forms which he is using for hybridising. I might also be growing some miniature wild forms.

[Martin Baxendale]

Given the time that my comparatively small scale (just a few hundred or maybe a thousand or so seeds a year) galanthus breeding takes up, I can really appreciate that you find time to take lots of photos too - I never do!

Transparency in petals can be an issue in galanthus too. Often a cultivar will look okay in the garden but when closely examined or photographed will prove to have very thin petals. And of course that means they can go over very quickly. Not a trait you' d want to breed in to future cultivars - yet a surprising number of old established cultivars are decidedly thin petalled. Thick susbtantial petals is something I always look for as breeding potential.

I really do envy you the extensive knowledge about narissus breeding and genetics. I have no idea yet what snowdrops are strong carriers genetically of this or that characteristic. Still fumbling around in the dark here, which I'm sure will lead to a lot of disappointments before I or anyone else starts to get a useful handle on breeding traits.

[Mini-daffs]

 
Martin, the flowers most likely to have transparency issues are flowers with white petals. The N. watieri don't have a lot of substance at the moment.
We do breed for substance and texture with our various breeding programs. Good Friend has excellent substance and texture for a miniature. I posted a photo of a 5W-W with petal coverage that is unbelievably good. That flower also has excellent substance and texture. We have the ability to breed increased substance and texture into our flowers but it is a long and time consuming process. The minimum time for a generation is 3 years with miniatures. Bit of a bummer if it is one of the miniatures where a generation is 10 years.
My knowledge has increased. Knew very little when I started (I am lawyer/ accountant by training not a scientist). We do have the advantage of numbers because at the end of the day it is a numbers game. If you do enough crosses chances are you will get something good!! While it is not a miniature I am really happy with the jonquilla hybrid with 3 florets to the stem. However, the miniature 5W-W with 6 florets to the stem is a hybridisers delight.
Luc, I don't think you could buy a Brooke Ager even if you wanted to. There is a subterranean trade in some bulbs and that is how you come by them and Brooke Ager one such bulb. It is a hybridisers dream and those that have don't often part with it. We have quite a few intermediates because we are bad standard hybridisers but they come in handy for breeding. I posted a photo of an intermediate 1W-P that is to die for a couple of posts ago. It is a perfect exhibition bloom and flowers a little earlier so it is more useful to an exhibitor. Everything has a price and the very best exhibition bulbs cost around 100-120 UK pounds a bulb (and all you get is a single round if it is really rare). I had a really nice round intermediate 11W-P but I think I have lost it in the drought.

[Maggi Young]

You did ASK for feedback, Graham 
I am sure we all realise just how big a task you have on your hands with hybridising these little jewels; my comment was about photographic results and while my number of million-plus-daff-hybridiser chums is pretty small, I have many fine photographer chums ! Your choice is, of course, just that, YOUR choice, I merely made a comment.

[annew]

For Anne, I will post a photo of the dwarf 6W-P

Did I miss this???

[annew]

I like that '5W-W with petal coverage' as well

[Mini-daffs]

 
Maggie, your photographic friends probably have plenty of time to compose their photos. They are also probably primarily photographers not large scale hybridisers. Many hybridisers don't even take the photos we do so the only way you see their flowers is by visiting them or going to a show where their flowers are on display. I don't mind comments but I do prefer them to be in their proper considered context (its the lawyer in me). If my main concern was photography you woundn't have any flowers to see because I would not have time to grow the daffodils. I do care about getting reasonable results for my minimal efforts and I keenly read articles on daffodil photography by the guru of daffodil photography and top daffodil exhibitor Kirby Fong (the majority of photos on daffseek are from his collection). He uses far more sophisticated techniques and far better camera equipment but he could not be described as taking field photos of miniatures in strong light conditions. The other big difference is the time taken for the photos. He takes plenty of time over his photos and is rewarded for doing so. I do intend upgrading my equipment but as it is not the main game it is not a high priority at this point in time.
Anne, mea culpa.

[Martin Baxendale]

Graham, re. the galanthus breeding, it can be quite embarrassing how little I've learned even after ten years of seed sowing and raising (which is of course actually no time at all in terms of a breeding programme, especially where there's been virtually no previous work to draw on, as with galanthus).

For example (and most worryingly!) I was asked to fill a last-minute gap in next year's RHS Daffodils, Snowdrops and Tulips Yearbook with a 3,000 word article on my snowdrop breeding. The editor seemed not too unhappy with the article, but now of course I'm really worried that what little experience and (so far) quite marginal results I've achieved mean the article is really quite thin on actual achievements and knowledge imparted - more a 'this is what I'm doing and what I might achieve eventually, but haven't so far, fingers crossed, watch this space piece of fluffy puff! 

Hey-ho! I suppose if you stick your head above the trench you get what you deserve!