Which poppy?

[Gerdk]

I would be glad if a had an identification of this cute Papaver species.
The seeds were collected near Zakros (E. Crete). It is an annual (here) and surprisingly it stayed compact (less than 15 cm) - even here in a better soil.

Gerd

[Armin]

Hi Gerd,
I have 2 proposals who could fit...

1) Bastard-Mohn: Papaver hybridum (rare in Germany)
2) Sand-Mohn: Papaver argemone (mediterranean species)

I think the form of the seed capsules formed later will help to find out what it is.

[Gerdk]

Thank you Armin!  I'll try to cast an eye at the capsules.

Gerd

[Melvyn Jope]

Hello Gerd and Armin,
I have just been looking at The Flowers of Crete by John Fielding, he has the following to say about the poppy which looks like yours.Papaver argenome, the prickly poppy, is represented in Crete by subsp. nigrotinctum (P. nigrotinctum). It is an uncommon,archaeophytic weed of cultivation known from only a few sites on the island. The petals are orange to red, with a black basal blotch, the anthers are blue, green or yellow, and the bristly capsules are at least twice as long as wide.
The caption to the photograph says...The dark base of the petals is a lovely contrast to the orange red colour; the almost blue anthers are attached to near black filaments.

[Armin]

Melvyn,
thanks for the details of P.argenome subspecies info.

[Gerdk]

Melvyn,
thanks for the details of P.argenome subspecies info.

-- from me also. Thanks to both of you! Have to wait for next flowers and seed capsules which will appear hopefully soon.

Gerd

[Gerdk]

Here are some recent pics of the Papaver from Crete.

The anthers are blue, the flower lacks a distinct black blotch.
Also the capsule doesn't seem twice as long as wide.

Melvyn, are these characteristics still fit for the subspecies?

Gerd

[Melvyn Jope]

Hello Gerd,

It looks very like John's photo in the Flowers of Crete so I am pretty confident that it fits the subspecies however to be on the safe side I will email John and ask his opinion. He told me this morning that he is extremely busy so we may not get a quick answer.

[fielding]

Hi, Melvyn asked me about the Papaver from Crete and I have taken a look at the pictures. I am not an expert on this subject and still feel that I am guessing. The picture with the seed pod looks as if it is dead rather than mature! A clearly mature seed pod might make identification more certain.
John

[Gerdk]

Melvyn & John,
Many thanks for your help. I'll show another seed pod when there will be
a ripe new one.

Gerd

[Gerdk]

Hi, Melvyn asked me about the Papaver from Crete and I have taken a look at the pictures. I am not an expert on this subject and still feel that I am guessing. The picture with the seed pod looks as if it is dead rather than mature! A clearly mature seed pod might make identification more certain.
John

Lastly here are some ripe capsules of the species accompanied by an additional pic of the whole plant from the beginning of June.

Gerd

[Lvandelft]

Gerd, is it possibly Roemeria refracta and no Papaver??

[Lori S.]

I am not familiar personally with Roemeria but I am led to think from Christopher Grey-Wilson's Poppies, that they have seed capsules that are very narrow and elongated (more along the lines of those of Eschscholtzia californica)... ?  R. refracta is said to have seed capsules that are linear-cylindrical, to 10 cm long, and there is a photo showing flowers and seed capsules - not a match for the plant in question.

[Lvandelft]

I am not familiar personally with Roemeria

The same with me

Well, I was just trying and I tried more or less to draw off attention from only searching within the Genus Papaver.
And I saw a picture of seedpods which look very different from those in the “Poppy Book”   

http://www.google.nl/search?hl=nl&safe=off&rlz=1G1GGLQ_NLNL324&q=roemeria+refracta+seedpods&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&biw=1126&bih=584&wrapid=tlif131140526793410&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi

[Lori S.]

I'd venture that that photo was misidentified.  Here's one that resembles the photo and line drawings in the Grey-Wilson book:
http://www.aksuinn.com/eng/gallery/poppy/roemeria-refracta-299